- cross-posted to:
- android@lemdro.id
- cross-posted to:
- android@lemdro.id
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Hold up, why all this crap… when most of the malware/infostealers is on Google Playstore… and googe itself is doing it.
Ok, fuck this crap. This was the main reason to prefer Android over iOS. Going to start trying out some of the FOSS Android forks
Another example of Embrace, extend, and extinguish
What did you expect? Did you think we were living in a fairy tale and could build a better world?
Get fucked
So now 3rd party app stores need an ADB loopback to work around that.
Not hard to do, but uselessly annoying.
That’s only if the apps distributed are unverified. Mind, the EU already requires app stores to document the identities of devs, but there are loopholes for Small enterprises. In 2027, manufacturers need to document the identities of their suppliers. There are still exceptions for non-profit open source projects, but that’s not what Google is. Surely, no one here wants Google to avoid regulations by investing in open source.
I believe F-Droid signs the packages it distributes so that creates a painful choke point. Revoke F-Droid’s key and it will break all of F-Droid instantaneously. The only exception for F-Droid’s signing is if the build is reproducible, which is a high bar for a lot of projects, and then F-Droid will use the upstream signature.
Also, they’re trying to close the ADB loophole.
I think you can already do that with shizuku and dome fdroid clients. It also makes using 3rd party appstores more convenient just in general.
Installing the third party stores would be way harder than it is right now if they do that though. No way the devs of e.g. f-droid are getting a verification on an app that bypasses Google’s new ‘safety measures’
I could imagine something like Sidequest happening on Android.
We really need some money poured into the Linux mobile space because this is a terrible direction to go.
Plain AOSP is already pretty brutal. An alternate OS is practically a non-starter. Phones aren’t just web browsers and SMS.
- Tap-to-pay
- Including transit fares
- Bank apps
- RCS messaging
- MFA and security apps
- Work profiles
- Streaming media that’s not 480p
Not to mention that the camera is going to suuuuuuuuck.
Forking or improving AOSP is more viable but none of the more mainstream ROMs want to piss off Google. That’s why most LineageOS forums forbid talking about defeating Play Integrity.
- Tap-to-pay
dug my pinephone out of a drawer yesterday and gave it a whirl. still pretty rough unfortunately even after updating postmarket os.
Cool being able to SSH into my phone though
Cool being able to SSH into my phone though
I thought you could do that on Android?
I’m still hoping they can get to a state for more general users. I really want one still. I need a Linux phone doing the old sidekick designs.
The main issue will be application support.
Linux running on the desktop in 2025 is helped immensely by everything being web based. So long as you have a browser you are fine for a lot of general computing.
The phone space is ruled by apps. The phone makers and the companies developing apps prefer it this way.
Getting a banking app, or Uber or Facebook Messenger to work on a Linux phone is going to be a massive pain in the ass (ignoring the rest of the OS which is definitely not even close to useable for the general public).
I would love a Linux phone but we are so far away.
I’m sure there will be some sort of compatibility layer available. Android Linux based after all.
There already is! I had a Furi Labs FLX1 for a while and it was able to run Android apps surprisingly via Andromeda (their fork of Waydroid).
The phone space is ruled by apps. The phone makers and the companies developing apps prefer it this way.
That’s true, but for everything non-free, they always end up having a perfectly working web app that will accept my money.
tbh part of the rough experience for me may be down to the hardware. the ubports version of the pinephone i have is quite low power. 2GB memory and a little ARM Cortex-A53
tis sluggish
Free market and openness my ass.
We need better Mobile Linux / Android distros
Is this even legal in the EU? The majority of phones in the EU are Android phones so this effectively gives Google control over what apps can be installed to the majority of phones. I thought the Digital Markets Act was designed to prevent exactly this.
This is essentially Google moving to do what I always thought was Apple’s malicious compliance on the DMA, but which European courts seem to have accepted as just fine. I’m pretty miffed at Google for sinking to Apple’s level on this.
Google will become the exact same as apple, third party stores are technically “allowed”, but requires Google’s official stamp (digital signature), it’s same with Apple. Its probably legal since Apple is already like this.
A corporation like Epic Games will be left alone since they can afford lawyers. An open source volunteer dev making a Youtube alternative client will get their certificates revoked under dubious “ToS Violation” claims and they won’t have money to sue.
It’ll be a battle and then they’ll get knocked and so on and so forth until we get these lazy cunts out of politics and break up the fuckin tech companies.
I think some recent EU proposals that make Google responsible for ensuring users can’t install malicious apps is what have caused this to happen though. I could be wrong but I think I remember hearing about that.
ThIs ApPLicAtIoN iS DaNgErOuS
Can someone “redpilled by corporate” explain me how this policy actually increase security?
It’s trivial for a malware developer to pay $25 with a stolen card and a stolen id
Look at the “verified” bots on xitter, they didn’t solve the bots problem, rather just monetized it
It’s not about stopping malware; it’s about being able to act on malware.
Making a new account with a new phone number and new credit card is a minor barrier to entry.
That said, it’s a cool story, but I think they’re looking to stop vanced style patching.
Corporate needs to have somebody to sue in case of a policy violation. Very especially those debloated apps that float around the web - they need to ensure they have a physical person to pin the blame to in court.
The vast majority of malware isn’t delivered via play store because of the existing measures and protections they have. Same reason you see very little app-store-based malware on iOS. DISCLAIMER: YES MALWARE EXISTS ON APPLE HARDWARE PLEASE DON’T SHOUT AT ME. Talking specifically about anything installed via first party stores on both platforms.
Their main issue is this: dumb people install apks from spurious website and infect their phones. The least controllable and most pervasive factor here is the intelligence and knowledge of the user which cannot be controlled for by Google. So by eliminating the ability to exploit this entirely, it will eliminate that specific vector.
It’s a sledgehammer solution that naturally comes with many downsides like disrupting intelligent and knowledgeable users that just want to hack around with FOSS and such.
Google is relying on It being too expensive for malware creators to have to guide each individual user through adb installation and usage process just to get access to their phone. Most scammers only do that level of interaction to extract actual cash/gift cards from the target.
I am personally and directly affected by their decision in many negative ways, but I’m not so dense as to not understand why they’re doing it.
/corpodronespeak
EDIT: bots help Xitter maintain inflated usage figures which justify people’s jobs, share prices, etc. Bots are a feature, not a bug.
yes, of course malware is distributed via apk.
But what’s the difference between:
- malware that is signed anonymously and then, when its signature is identified, it’s removed via play protect
- malware that is signed with a stolen identity and then, when its signature is identified, it’s removed via play protect
?
Isn’t exactly the same stuff? Or there’s someone that is actually thinking that criminals will use their real ID card for the verification?
Does not change anything for malware distribution, except bother them for a dozen minutes meanwhile they “verify” their stolen ID
Because it can be invalidated. That’s the difference.
It’s absolutely not foolproof, but nothing is. Most actions corps take for this stuff only slows down the spread. Hackers and bad actors innovate way faster than companies can keep up with. So companies cast a wide net with their solutions. And the cycle continues.
Apks can be invalidated after installation?
with the new system, you must go online to check if the license for that app is still valid or revoked. But the current system works almost the same: if there’s an internet connection play protect checks the signature against an online malware db and prevents installation.
From a couple years ago, google has the power to remotely install/uninstall any apk on your phone without your consent
No, the certificate can be invalidated preventing future installations for other users. If you already have it you’re SOOL
Their main issue is this: dumb people install apks from spurious website
No they don’t. Most people don’t even know what an apk even is.
Most people don’t know what a bootloader is. They still turn their devices on and off every day.
This whole conversation is about adding obstacles to prevent non technical users from doing things they don’t fully understand.
The overwhelming majority of Android users don’t even know where to start to install software outside of the Play Store. If they’re even aware that it’s possible.
It’s actually an incredibly common way that they are infected, especially in places where WhatsApp is the default communication platform
Yes you’re right. If they knew, it would likely come with the knowledge that, if someone asks you to do this, you’re probably being scammed.
That’s what makes them most vulnerable to these kinds of scams.
It’s a lie. Google just wants control.
I presume they are implying that the play store review process will catch compromised apps? Not likely considering how many dodgy apps have been found on play store. It’s just another controlling act.
I would assume that you won’t just be able to register with a stolen id and stolen card.
if scammers can open a bank account with stolen identities, i’d assume google, which is entirely run by bots without any human oversight, wouldn’t have a better detection
You don’t think Google have better tech than banks?
Oh boy. You have no idea how old and bad the underlying tech that banks work on is.
Google is doing this to comply with EU regulations supposed to increase security. Now imagine that Google was pushing back against this instead of complying. As per usual, Lemmy would be up in arms against Google for failing to protect people’s data and not complying with our laws and culture. You’d be downvoted to oblivion for asked that question and called a corporate bootlicker.
I think these rules come from German legal culture, which traditionally has a strong need to control information exchange and processing.
the way they originally phrased it, it was seemingly because of authoritarian governments like singapore wanting to exert more control (hey google, can you revoke the certificate or doxx this dev for us?) and then they realized that they could make more money if they extended this block worldwide
I’m sure the EU is not the only jurisdiction demanding this sort of thing, but I doubt Singapore has the pull needed to get Google to move.
Brussels effect. Imagine Google were to still allow unverified apps in the US. Most devs would still opt for verification so as not to lose the EU market. The proportion of malware is probably going to be higher among the few remaining unverified apps. Sooner or later, some US scam victims would sue Google for failing to protect them like it protects Europeans. Hard to refute.
Man, I miss my jailbroken iPhone 5.
It was like having your cake and eating it, and somehow its stock (much less tweaked) UI is less clunky than whatever TF Apple has done to my discount 16. Maybe it’s because I was using Android in between, but still…
The UI in iOS 26 looks like Windows Aero on Crack, and not in a good way…
I hope google fails as a whole in the near future and gets dissolved once and for all. Sick and tired of tech companies trying to be sources of authority, working with authoritarian governments, and dictating what you can and can’t do.
I’ll be honest, tech got us by the balls… and they know it.
No they don’t. There are viable, open source alternatives for 99% of the software/services we use. The fact that people are not aware of it is already like half of the real problem.
Say that to my banking and credit card apps (some of which don’t even have a web version for seCuRitY reasons)
I’d say ‘change banks’.
The open source alternative to those is currently doing quite well.
What is it ?
I don’t imagine that paradigm going away at all anytime soon or ever
I have hope. Last time they got hit with an anti monopoly lawsuit that should’ve forced them to sell away chrome, but unfortunately they got bailed out. Here’s hoping next time they aren’t so lucky
I wish I could tie whoever made this decision to a radiator and face judgement.
Calling it already, one of the most popular apps around will be a wrapper around ADB in order to install new apps - maybe Shizuku or Sui?
Shizuku?
EDIT: I didn’t notice it was mentioned already. XDD
App that mimics wireless debugging device and allows you to access ADB functionality locally. Widely used to perform actions that are normally unavailable on non-rooted devices. Some apps rely on functionality provided by Shizuku - for example, Canta, which allows you to delete any app, including undeletable pre-installed ones.
Yeah, I know. I didn’t notice. Sorry.
If Fdriod could incorporate this it will not affect them.
F-Droid will probably get revoked if they allow apps like Newpipe.
Install fdroid ttaditionally via ADB and then fdroid will do the remaining?
