reuters.com
www.reuters.com

“We were at a village that Israeli settlers had destroyed, they had destroyed the school, they had destroyed that village, and we were just looking at it,” said Khanna, a progressive lawmaker from California in the U.S. House of ​Representatives.

“And these hoodlums come in with machine guns – M4, an American-made machine gun – and they detain us. They block off the road. And then they call the IDF and ​the IDF is on their side, not on the side of the Americans,” Khanna said, referring to the Israeli military.

An aide to ⁠Khanna who was in the group, Cameron Kasky, said they were held for more than an hour and made appeals to the U.S. Embassy in Jerusalem for help. A group ​of officers who appeared to be police eventually intervened, leading to their release, Kasky said.

  • wheezy@lemmy.mlEnglish
    122·
    1 day ago

    Let them praise him. He doesn’t have to be an antizionist. He’s a symbol of antizionism here. That’s whats being praised.

    Like, I have my criticisms of the “two state - right to exist” Liberals. But, what did you expect progress to look like comrade? The same Liberals that spent years talking about October 7th in every sentence and “right to defend itself”. Those liberals are being forced to acknowledge the crimes of Israel. This is a win. You’re making those that advocate for Palestinians look unreasonable and irrational.

    I understand being upset at these libs. I understand why you still call him a Zionist. But, my friend, please, we have a long way to go still; criticizing a Congressman felt a fraction of a fraction of the oppression Palestinians feel every day in the West Bank. It’s not productive in this context. There are plenty of context to criticize him. The libs see this and dislike Israel. Just let that be the discussion.

    Apartheid South Africa ended when the liberals of the West were finally forced by activist and leftist into performative things just like this. This is a good sign. Let it happen.

    The liberals praising anything against Israel is good. We’re gonna have to cringe and bite our tongue when they treat Congressman as heroic for this. They are treating action against Israel as a positive. They are treating West Bank settlers as enemies. That’s amazing. Remember where we came from just three years ago; and where we are today. They’ll understand your current criticism one day. But this is not the context in which to educate them.

    • doben@lemmy.mlEnglish
      33·
      1 day ago

      Weird plea, sorry. This post has more than enough praise for the guy. I’m merely stating facts to rebuke naive or false narratives and to stop Zionist normalization. It’s not my job to appease Liberals or refrain from stating inconvenient truths.

      Some Libs might see this and break through. Let it happen.

      I don’t give a shit about congressmen in the imperialist core and I’m certainly not going to support controlled opposition of a system I reject outright. This system has to end. Fuck off.

      • wheezy@lemmy.mlEnglish
        11·
        19 hours ago

        My “plea” is simply that when you talk to people that are ripe for radicalization, you ask yourself first “is this helpful” rather than just caring only about “being correct”.

        It’s the “coffee shop” test mate. If you overheard a conversation about the OP in a coffee shop would you bust in and start screaming about how much of a Zionist the Congressman is? Or would you act like a normal human being and try to meet people where they are at? You don’t convince people that are just finally becoming critical of Israel of your (our) position by not first acknowledging where they are correct in their thinking. We are humans. They’re gonna close their minds when you say shit like this. You’re not saying something to be helpful. You’re saying something to be “shocking” to them for your own self self aggrandizement.

        You started this with “the zionist is getting attacked by Zionist”. You said that for yourself. You only started “educating” people after you got the reaction you were looking for. So you could argue with someone that would never agree with you because you essentially screamed at them in a coffee shop.

        I’m literally commenting here in response to you only because of how badly you’re communicating something I agree with. I don’t think I deserve a “fuck off” for that. But, I guess if you were good at communicating we wouldn’t have gotten to that point in the first place.

        • doben@lemmy.mlEnglish
          11·
          12 hours ago

          You‘re ridiculous. Please stop wasting my time with your fantasy arguments.

          1. That guy Catoblepas wasn’t ripe for radicalization by any means. They’re trying to find excuses as to why the talking points of his Democratic Party hopeful are morally good. They also don’t understand what Zionism is.
          2. We‘re not in a coffee shop, but in an international forum about (political) world news. I‘m invited to participate by the nature of the thing we‘re communicating on. Drink your coffee however you want, but if you showcase your ignorance on the internet, chances are, someone will call you out for it. You are inserting yourself in this fictional coffee shop situation yourself, only you are tone policing and attacking by the use of ad hominem.
          3. I’m not screaming.
          4. I met them, where they’re at, as they participated and showcased some kind of ignorance (as in “lack of knowledge”), by stating untrue things to make a point. I replied fact based and calm.
          5. By holding facts against misguided feelings, I’m very much saying something to be helpful.
          6. There’s nothing shocking about what I said. I fact checked the other user. If it’s shocking to people that their favorite latest Party talking head is not actually the cool guy they thought he would be, then idk, someone should confront them with their delusions. Kinda sad, that you claim that position, without actually doing it.
          7. The only self aggrandizement is coming from you, as you proclaim to have moral superiority by way of your moderate language (which is not moderate, mind you) and by standing tall as the wise person, reprimanding other user’s communication. You’re also ridiculous, as your critiques are misguided and flat out wrong.
          8. I did not start this thread, I did not post the jesting commentary “Zionist detained by Zionist is pretty funny, NGL. 😂” – that was @Maeve@kbin.earth – and they were factually correct. And it’s exactly funny, because it’s true. It’s also sad. This is the state of things.
          9. I only started educating people, how you frame it, after they put out claims, that contradicted the previous comment and my understanding of the factors involved. Only then, did I check for myself, what the actual stances of the politician in question are by actually doing some research, listening and reading and as I saw the contradictions cleared, I shared them with the user propagating the incorrect information by providing quotes and sources.
          10. The only person looking for some reaction is you, by counterfactually tone policing other people.
          11. I didn’t argue with someone that would never agree with me, how would I know? I corrected misinformation by stating facts in the hope that this person or any other onlooker would be able to see through the demagogic rhetoric of a politician trying to impress people in order for them to vote for him.
          12. I didn’t scream, I’m not in a coffee shop. I’m in the biggest community of the fediverse, which is full of liberal confusions, western propaganda and even mods making sure it stays that way.
          13. You’re literally commenting, because you think you’re better than me. You are absolutely way off base and largely just wrong, which makes this whole thing quite embarrassing. If you’d be worried about my communication destroying the seemingly fragile progress you made in educating liberal people by appeasement, you could have send a message. But actually, you decided to be the screamer in a fictional coffee shop. The fuck off is warranted, an excuse for your deranged allegations and defaming deliberations, too.
          14. And no, Apartheid Africa did not end because of liberal appeasement. Just LOL.
          • wheezy@lemmy.mlEnglish
            11·
            9 hours ago

            You need to go outside mate. I’m not reading all that. You’re proving my point of being bad at communicating with people. THATS MY CRITICISM. Which you didn’t address from a quick glance of your novel. You’re doing the thing I’m critizing you for. Good day.

            • doben@lemmy.mlEnglish
              11·
              8 hours ago

              Classic.
              Sleazy wheezy, I see.

              I had to read your two mistaken diatribes, too. I‘m reacting directly to their substance. You‘re so full of yourself, that you‘re not even reading the answers.

              Stop accusing me of shit I didnt do.
              Stop being dishonest.
              Stop harrassing me.

              • wheezy@lemmy.mlEnglish
                11·
                8 hours ago

                Harassing? Now you’ve dropped into a victim complex. You’re spiralling mate. It’s embarrassing. Ironically you’re acting like a Zionist. A small amount of constructive criticism for the way you communicate. You’ve completely lost the plot that youve deluded yourself.

                • doben@lemmy.mlEnglish
                  1·
                  8 hours ago

                  It’s straight wrong stuff you proclaim. Either read the comment or stfu.

                  • wheezy@lemmy.mlEnglish
                    1·
                    6 hours ago

                    It’s an opinion on the way you communicate mate. There is nothing to refute. That’s why none of your list of bullet points addressed it. You essentially said “nuh uh” and then rambled about irrelevant justifications for why you communicate like a dickhead.

                    When someone tells you you’re being a dickhead about the way you communicate and then you give a list of bullet points to justify why you’re acting like a dickhead, well, you’re just kind of proving the point. I read it. There is nothing you addressed on my criticism. You just justified to yourself why you decide to communicate like a dickhead. And if people don’t learn from you then apparently that’s there problem.

                    It’s not there problem. It’s our problem. It is our job as leftist to radicalize people. If you’re not actually trying to do that, and every conversation ends with you feeling superior for “being educated” while doing nothing to convince people then that is your failure NOT others.

                    I started this conversation with empathy for your frustrations. But you are so lost in your own individualization and personal identity that you made it all about yourself and started playing victim. Your acting like a “special snowflake liberal” and making it all about yourself. Listing out justifications for your own lack of communication skills because you refuse to address the actual criticism.

                    Which is why you can’t understand that the criticism and advice I was giving is about how to actually convince people, educate people, and how to actually radicalize people. The average person isn’t going to be convinced by “facts and logic” while you say something to piss them off . That’s what you did. Doing that closes them off. It makes them turn into this same defensive stance that you yourself are stuck in RIGHT NOW. Ironically enough.

                    That’s why I started my comment with agreeing with your definitions and criticisms of liberal zionist. I had hoped that would help you understand that the criticism I have comes from a place of understanding. But, some people are hopeless in trying to help I guess.