the grass is always greener
*looks down at sand*
So, memery aside, do y’all have your official digital postbox/email, a personal email, a work email, etc. or do you just use the one?
You don’t need digital postbox or emails, if no one wants to interact with you.
In Denmark, as a citizen, you get an official secure email sort of thing attached to you NemID, called “eboks”.
NemID is a central account in the Danish registry that holds all your personal information, such as medical conditions, home address, bank accounts…
You are required to have an app on your smartphone called “MitID” which you use for logging into services related to your NemID.
Your NemID is being secured by a security company the Danish government hired called Nets. Security and encryption is handled by them, and the government and related elements will only send mail to your eboks, which requires you to log in with MitID.
They’re trying to implement something like this in the UK but they haven’t been able to explain how they plan to accommodate people that don’t have smartphones. Because they exist and need to be accommodated for.
Well, here in Denmark you can get a NemKey device. But that’s only given to old people in care homes.
The other method would be doing everything by in-person appointments, which need to be booked weeks in advance and usually requires you to answer a list of security questions each time.
Essentially very annoying to do if you don’t have a smartphone, especially if you want to do something simple and quick. Like transferring money from your bank (logging into your bank account requires NemID), buying something online (verification done through NemID), transferring medical documents to a new doctor and/or changing home address (NemID log-in at the civil registry).
These are all things that can be done within seconds or minutes with your smartphone, but will take weeks (counting the time you have to wait for an appointment) if you want to do it “the old fashion way”.
In other words, here in Denmark the expectation is that you have a smartphone. Loads of services are now smartphone dependent, like taking public transport (tickets and check-in cards are slowly being phased out).
Geez. That all sounds awful. I’m glad we aren’t to that point in my country. Having to provide an ID anytime you buy shit online is so dystopic.
Well, on the flip side, stealing a credit card and using it online is a lot more difficult.
I see so the solution to the very real problem is to pretend that it doesn’t exist and to penalise people. Great.
I’m going to say that I don’t want this. Sure 99% of people have smartphones but I don’t think it’s worth alienating the 1% that don’t so that it’s mildly more convenient for everyone else.
I can already transfer money from one bank account to another without having to involve the government I don’t see the benefit in changing that.
I can already transfer money from one bank account to another without having to involve the government I don’t see the benefit in changing that.
This argument is strongly dependant on what country you’re in and what government you’re under. However, generally speaking, Danes have a pretty high trust in their government (compared to many other countries).
Well, here in Denmark you can get a NemKey device. But that’s only given to old people in care homes.
Negative, you can get a device if you want to. Even if you already have an active MitID app.
In other words, here in Denmark the expectation is that you have a smartphone. Loads of services are now smartphone dependent, like taking public transport (tickets and check-in cards are slowly being phased out).
Again here you can use an NFC card, but the company behind the common app system really rather you didn’t. So much so that they’ve occasionally taken out half the card readers on the platforms, by putting an advert for the app on them.
Please don’t be like Denmark. This sucks. Rooting your phone, to get rid of privacy invading bloatware, makes your phone insecure, and you can’t use it for money transfers or ID verification.
I’m trying not to go off on a rant here, but please don’t be like Denmark.
Negative, you can get a device if you want to. Even if you already have an active MitID app.
Tried getting one in Bispebjerg Kommun and they refused me. I had a smartphone. I told them that a security update bricked my phone’s security. I was told to simply buy a new phone.
So much so that they’ve occasionally taken out half the card readers on the platforms, by putting an advert for the app on them.
Last year lived with an Indian roommate who worked for DSB. Their big push for 2030 is to automate everything through smartphone tracking with the DSB app and facial recognition on train cameras. Their idea is that you won’t need to manually check in or out anymore.
They’ve already made several deals with Microsoft and Amazon for AI datacentre use, and the removal of card readers and the automated check-out option you can turn on in the DSB app are the first steps.
Tried getting one in Bispebjerg Kommun and they refused me. I had a smartphone. I told them that a security update bricked my phone’s security. I was told to simply buy a new phone.
First off, that’s just wrong of them. I don’t know, but I think you could file a complaint with indenrigsministeriet, and if they tell you to take a hike then Folketingets Ombudsmand.
But more importantly, you can circumvent the local yahoos and order it online instead. https://www.mitid.dk/en-gb/get-started-with-mitid/how-to-use-mitid/mitid-code-display/#order you will need a valid passport though.
Yeah, I figured it was probably just rude bullshit. But I didn’t know where to take it from there. But good to know.
A boring dystopia 🤮
It’s only a dystopia if there comes a massive right wing shift in Denmark, like is happening with our neighbours in Germany.
However, I do recognise how easily these systems can be used for ulterior motives. What’s furthermore distressing is that Denmark is a huge supporter of chat control and has taken the lead in creating drafts to propose to the EU.
For now, NemID is a convenience.
For now.
Have they quantified the savings on this program? I was thinking about it the other day. I get mostly spam mail, but a lot of my family and friends still write letters. Was this a popular policy?
I’ve only heard people complain about it when it didn’t work, which is rarely.
I returned to Denmark 11 years ago, and they had already implemented the whole NemID system. The only thing that changed is you now need an app instead of a card covered in tiny, hard to read numbers.
Letter deliveries continue as always, it’s just another company delivering the service.
The company taking over is already in the parcel and morning paper delivery service, and letters today are so few in Denmark, that they can probably take that up pretty easily.
Letters are so rare here that last year our household only received 3 letters, and 2 of them were small medical test kits, that would probably have been cheaper to send as parcels. So in reality I count it as only 1 letter, and the previous year I don’t recall receiving a single letter!We have a digital service which provides all official letters and also has the ability to return them as legally signed.
Crazy to be hear letters are rare in Denmark, I’m drowning in letters in Germany! If you apply for an official online service, they send you a letter with the pin code. Letters are kinda used as notifications here too.
The level of digitisation in Denmark is very high compared to basically any other country in the world. That is what most people commenting in this thread seems very unaware about.
To me it sounds weird to “apply for an official online service”. We have access to all public online services through the same login we use for banks and the official public digital mail service.
No matter if it’s tax, health, prescription renewal, the bank or whatever, we login through the same login service, and every danish citizen automatically has access to all public services without applying and without delay.
Even people who are not citizens, like for instance exchange students are issued access to this system.
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«By law, Danes must always be able to send a letter. If a private company stops delivering them, the government must step in with a new provider.»
So it’s not ending the letter service really
Nationalization of public services, I guess it’s good
No clue why you’re being downvoted, privatisation of public services is one of the earliest forms of enshittification
I agree.
Fortunately I don’t care about farming karma on social networks.
Downvote probably because people realize that going back to public service also means now that private owners are done milking that to the bones, it is tax payer money that get to rescue the whole thing.
By the way if I understand it right it seems some other private entity will be looking after courrier.
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I know Dao have stepped in to take over letter delivery.
Friendly reminder that Denmark is about 44 km^2. For context, the UK is 244 km^2
Which matters a lot. Because the various postal services around the globe? Letters are petty much a side benefit. What they are really for is delivery of important packages (e.g. medicine). Particularly to rural underserviced areas. And when you have routes that head out to the boonies 3-7 times a week, carrying a sack of letters is “free”
This? I don’t know all the details and don’t have enough of a basis to gather them from a short article. But this definitely feels like it is going to be depending on third parties for package delivery and so forth… which is what certain, really fucking stupid, countries are trying to do by privatizing/defunding their postal service.
Like I said, Denmark is tiny. They will probably be fine. But this… feels like the kind of thing that will bite people in the butt a decade or so down the line.
Your numbers are off by a factor of 1000. According to Wikipedia Denmark is 43 094 km² and UK 244 376 km² 🌸
I love living in 44 square kms with all the other Danes. We’re a tight knit people, except Troels.
What did he do?
With fewer letters being sent, postage stamp costs have soared. Sending a standard letter in Denmark now costs 29.11 krone ($6.84)
gonna make rich people start sending letters to Denmark as a flex
Super misleading title?
Outright wrong in fact.
I was just today writing about the importance of sending physical mail as a form of non-violent action compared to sending email. Paper mail implies that the sender cares more about the issue in question and also ensures a more personal touch with a greater literal presence if enough physical letters can be mailed. Ofcourse there is a trade off with it being less easy and requiring postage, it depends on the context. I guess it’s just no longer an option for people in Denmark.
https://commonslibrary.org/198-nonviolent-methods-upgraded/#Access_Spreadsheet
You can still send physical mail. The service is being taken over by a different company.
Oh ok, hmm I guess one could self deliver too.
Our physical mail has been degraded a lot.
It used to be day to day delivery and cheap. But now, just before the closing, it would have cost me 4 euros to send a postcard to my neighbor, and she wouldn’t receive it until next week, maybe longer, maybe not at all. And then as the sender, you should also consider the additional weeks that people might take between checking their mailbox.
No wonder people don’t use it. It’s straight up unprofessional to communicate by letters here.
I did receive a letter last year, but I actually thought it was weird of them to use physical mail - as if they didn’t want me to have the information. If was important, they certainly shouldn’t do it like that.
God forbid someone needs to send a legally required letter like a bankruptcy or foreclosure notification…
Aside from having digital post for public services and official mail from things like financial institutions, nobody’s stopping you from putting paper into a parcel envelope or using DAO who is taking over letter delivery.
This comment is a good example of how a lot of people are unaware about how far ahead in digitisation Denmark is compared to basically all other countries.
You get those through your digital mailbox. Everyone gets one of those tied to their CPR number.
https://en.digst.dk/systems/digital-post/
PS Also Dao is taking over physical mail delivery so you can still send them anyways if you really want a paper.
I would no joke love this.
Honestly it’s very convenient. I always get notified when I get new mail and I can just check it on my phone. Don’t need to check the mailbox. We can also digitally sign documents if needed with an app tied to our unique identifier number. That app is also used to sign into government websites, the bank, also to confirm purchases and bank transfers over a certain sum.
We have an official digital service which provides all official letters and also has the ability to return them as legally signed.
I’m sure there are couriers available.
You can still send letters as before, it’s just another company handling them.
