Depends on the respect of the Sabbath. During the time of Jesus, the Pharisees got extremely legalistic.
Matthew 12:1-8
At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry, and they began to pluck heads of grain and to eat. But when the Pharisees saw it, they said to him, “Look, your disciples are doing what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath.” He said to them, “Have you not read what David did when he was hungry, and those who were with him: how he entered the house of God and ate the bread of the Presence, which it was not lawful for him to eat nor for those who were with him, but only for the priests? Or have you not read in the Law how on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath and are guiltless? I tell you, something greater than the temple is here. And if you had known what this means, ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless. For the Son of Man is lord of the Sabbath.”
Here they were plucking to eat, not to work. It is worth noting later on that Christians moved Sabbath to Sunday from the previous Saturday. So in the way it previously was kept? No. But rest is important. In terms of the law:
Matthew 22:36-40
“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” And he (Jesus) said to him, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets.”
By this, the law was fulfilled and the legalistic framework was abolished. The law is based on these.
It comes to a head in the Jerusalem council when gentiles were exempt from the majority of Jewish laws, apart from taking part in idol sacrifices (or food sacrificed to idols) and eating blood. Although some would say the latter is more about canon law and hygiene within that church which is no longer operating, in comparison to being a sin, but that’s another topic. At it’s strictest, that is it. I won’t paste the whole Jerusalem Council here, but it’s in Acts 15.
If someone is neutral towards Jesus, is he considered for or against him?
By “neutral” I’ll take that to mean “non religious but I don’t hate you.” Then he’s against.
Mark 9:38-41
John said to him, “Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in your name, and we tried to stop him, because he was not following us.” But Jesus said, “Do not stop him, for no one who does a mighty work in my name will be able soon afterward to speak evil of me. For the one who is not against us is for us. For truly, I say to you, whoever gives you a cup of water to drink because you belong to Christ will by no means lose his reward.
This is the context I assume you’re talking about. As you can see, the person in the example here wasn’t literally following the disciples in terms of their journey and mission, but still accepted Jesus as the Messiah. So that person was a Christian. Think of like a layperson - not in ministry, maybe even part of a different Christian Church. They aren’t against Christ. Jesus gave an example that even if the only interaction His disciples have with someone is that they give one of them water because they are a disciple, they won’t lose their reward because they didn’t drop everything to travel with Him like they all did.
3:
2 Samuel 24:1 ESV
Again the anger of the Lord was kindled against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, “Go, number Israel and Judah.”
In this context, God doesn’t tempt. Some translations translate “he” as “it” as in the hebrew it’s not as determinative as it is in English. We know this from later on:
2 Samuel 24:10
But David’s heart struck him after he had numbered the people. And David said to the Lord, “I have sinned greatly in what I have done. But now, O Lord, please take away the iniquity of your servant, for I have done very foolishly.”
So David knew what he did was wrong already - so it couldn’t have been a command from God. So with Context, the writer clearly didn’t mean that God commanded David to take census. This is backed up by 1 Chronicles 21:1
Then Satan stood against Israel and incited David to number Israel.
So it was clearly Satan. It would have been a job-like scenario where God loosens His protection for a moment.
1 Chronicles 21:4-6
But the king’s word prevailed against Joab. So Joab departed and went throughout all Israel and came back to Jerusalem. And Joab gave the sum of the numbering of the people to David. In all Israel there were 1,100,000 men who drew the sword, and in Judah 470,000 who drew the sword. But he did not include Levi and Benjamin in the numbering, for the king’s command was abhorrent to Joab.
2 Samuel 24:8-9
So when they had gone through all the land, they came to Jerusalem at the end of nine months and twenty days. And Joab gave the sum of the numbering of the people to the king: in Israel there were 800,000 valiant men who drew the sword, and the men of Judah were 500,000.
2 Samuel shows the actual sum given to the King. 1 Chronicles shows the actual sum taken and explains the discrepancy by saying Levi and Benjamin weren’t included
At times Jesus was silent when given trap questions. Other times He spoke. He didn’t really argue that much, moreso just exposed the hypocrisy of the sham trial.
And the high priest stood up and said, “Have you no answer to make? What is it that these men testify against you?” But Jesus remained silent. And the high priest said to him, “I adjure you by the living God, tell us if you are the Christ, the Son of God.” Jesus said to him, “You have said so. But I tell you, from now on you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
God cannot change.
Malachi 3:6
For I the Lord do not change; therefore you, O children of Jacob, are not consumed.
Hebrews 13:8-9
Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever. Do not be led away by diverse and strange teachings, for it is good for the heart to be strengthened by grace, not by foods, which have not benefited those devoted to them.
James 1:17
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change.
He can make concessions for a time but He doesn’t change.
Yes and no. It’s not the same as human jealousy/covetness. God’s jealousy is based on pure perfect passion, care and love. Human jealousy is generally based on materialism, popularity, etc.
Exodus 20:5-6, 17
You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.
“You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his male servant, or his female servant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor’s.”
No. But He can allow Satan to tempt people.
James 1:13-15
Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one. But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his own desire. Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.
Job 1:7-12
The Lord said to Satan, “From where have you come?” Satan answered the Lord and said, “From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down on it.” And the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a blameless and upright man, who fears God and turns away from evil?” Then Satan answered the Lord and said, “Does Job fear God for no reason? Have you not put a hedge around him and his house and all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his possessions have increased in the land. But stretch out your hand and touch all that he has, and he will curse you to your face.” And the Lord said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your hand. Only against him do not stretch out your hand.” So Satan went out from the presence of the Lord.
God Himself was tempted. He made Himself vulnerable to it. Jesus was led into temptation’s path by the Holy Spirit for this test, but He wasn’t tempted by God. Just less protected. Although Jesus, being God Himself didn’t give into the temptation, unlike David.
Matthew 4:1-3
Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. And after fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. And the tempter came and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread.”
You seem to think the bible says the Sabbath need not be kept because of the new covenant, however Matthew 5:17-18 contradicts that view, because Jesus says that the law hasn’t changed. Also if you read carefully you will notice that even in some passages where he’s critic of Sabbath, it is directed at the way people do it, and not the act itself.
Neutral person
You’re missreading what you quoted. Regarding Jesus a person can be in one of 3 states, for, against or neutral. Your quote says
For the one who is not against us is for us.
Meaning neutral counts as counts as for, therefore Jesus is not against like you claimed. If you would like to keep arguing he’s against then quote Matthew 12:30 which is the exact opposite, i.e.
He who is not with Me is against Me
Who asked for the Census
You can’t quote something that literally says God told David to number people and claim that’s not what it means. He didn’t tempt, there’s no ambiguity he said “Go number Israel”.
numbers
Again, you’re fidgeting meaning, when someone says the sum is X but I didn’t included Y they mean that the actual number is larger than what he said. You’re shoe fitting an explanation to try to make it fit.
Jesus v Pilates
And yet in John 18:33 he’s very chatty, and always replies.
can God change
And yet, several times in the bible he regrets what he did, which is only possible by a creature capable of change. Regret means that he would do it differently now, so for example in 1 Samuel 15:10-11 when he said he regrets having made Saul King he means he wouldn’t do it now, therefore he has changed.
Also since you quoted something that also tells that Jesus can’t change, then he can’t be tempted nor die, since that requires change. Therefore Satan never had a chance to tempt him in the mountain, which makes it pointless, also he didn’t die when crucified which is a problem to the whole Christianity idea.
Jealousy
Like you quoted God is jealous, but also jealousy is a sin, and God can’t be near sin, so he can’t be near himself. You can’t claim he’s a special kind of jealous, jealousy as a whole is listed as an obvious sin in Galatians 5:20, there’s no “except when Jealousy is based on passion”
Temptation
But also he tests followers, for example Abraham. Those being tested can obey or not, not obeying god is a sin, therefore asking someone to do something they don’t want is tempting them to sin.
I have yet to find one “contradiction” that actually holds any water. Usually it boils down to one writer describing angels as men while the other describes them as angels, or another writer mentioning details that another didn’t. If anything, it shows a lack of corroboration which makes them more reliable, especially between John and the Synoptics. There’s nothing that’s actually contradictory
The insane beauty of debating a religious nut is knowing that any logic can instantly be countered by them reaching into their pocket and . . . POOF! Magic.
EDIT: With that in mind, enjoy this link. Don’t bother coming back. I’ll just scoff derisively.
No it doesn’t
Answer me these citing the bible verse you’re using to justify your answer:
Depends on the respect of the Sabbath. During the time of Jesus, the Pharisees got extremely legalistic.
Matthew 12:1-8
Here they were plucking to eat, not to work. It is worth noting later on that Christians moved Sabbath to Sunday from the previous Saturday. So in the way it previously was kept? No. But rest is important. In terms of the law:
Matthew 22:36-40
By this, the law was fulfilled and the legalistic framework was abolished. The law is based on these.
It comes to a head in the Jerusalem council when gentiles were exempt from the majority of Jewish laws, apart from taking part in idol sacrifices (or food sacrificed to idols) and eating blood. Although some would say the latter is more about canon law and hygiene within that church which is no longer operating, in comparison to being a sin, but that’s another topic. At it’s strictest, that is it. I won’t paste the whole Jerusalem Council here, but it’s in Acts 15.
By “neutral” I’ll take that to mean “non religious but I don’t hate you.” Then he’s against.
Mark 9:38-41
This is the context I assume you’re talking about. As you can see, the person in the example here wasn’t literally following the disciples in terms of their journey and mission, but still accepted Jesus as the Messiah. So that person was a Christian. Think of like a layperson - not in ministry, maybe even part of a different Christian Church. They aren’t against Christ. Jesus gave an example that even if the only interaction His disciples have with someone is that they give one of them water because they are a disciple, they won’t lose their reward because they didn’t drop everything to travel with Him like they all did.
3:
2 Samuel 24:1 ESV
In this context, God doesn’t tempt. Some translations translate “he” as “it” as in the hebrew it’s not as determinative as it is in English. We know this from later on:
2 Samuel 24:10
So David knew what he did was wrong already - so it couldn’t have been a command from God. So with Context, the writer clearly didn’t mean that God commanded David to take census. This is backed up by 1 Chronicles 21:1
So it was clearly Satan. It would have been a job-like scenario where God loosens His protection for a moment.
1 Chronicles 21:4-6
2 Samuel 24:8-9
2 Samuel shows the actual sum given to the King. 1 Chronicles shows the actual sum taken and explains the discrepancy by saying Levi and Benjamin weren’t included
At times Jesus was silent when given trap questions. Other times He spoke. He didn’t really argue that much, moreso just exposed the hypocrisy of the sham trial.
God cannot change.
Malachi 3:6
Hebrews 13:8-9
James 1:17
He can make concessions for a time but He doesn’t change.
Yes and no. It’s not the same as human jealousy/covetness. God’s jealousy is based on pure perfect passion, care and love. Human jealousy is generally based on materialism, popularity, etc.
Exodus 20:5-6, 17
No. But He can allow Satan to tempt people.
James 1:13-15
Job 1:7-12
God Himself was tempted. He made Himself vulnerable to it. Jesus was led into temptation’s path by the Holy Spirit for this test, but He wasn’t tempted by God. Just less protected. Although Jesus, being God Himself didn’t give into the temptation, unlike David.
Matthew 4:1-3
Sabbath
You seem to think the bible says the Sabbath need not be kept because of the new covenant, however Matthew 5:17-18 contradicts that view, because Jesus says that the law hasn’t changed. Also if you read carefully you will notice that even in some passages where he’s critic of Sabbath, it is directed at the way people do it, and not the act itself.
Neutral person
You’re missreading what you quoted. Regarding Jesus a person can be in one of 3 states, for, against or neutral. Your quote says
Meaning neutral counts as counts as for, therefore Jesus is not against like you claimed. If you would like to keep arguing he’s against then quote Matthew 12:30 which is the exact opposite, i.e.
Who asked for the Census
You can’t quote something that literally says God told David to number people and claim that’s not what it means. He didn’t tempt, there’s no ambiguity he said “Go number Israel”.
numbers
Again, you’re fidgeting meaning, when someone says the sum is X but I didn’t included Y they mean that the actual number is larger than what he said. You’re shoe fitting an explanation to try to make it fit.
Jesus v Pilates
And yet in John 18:33 he’s very chatty, and always replies.
can God change
And yet, several times in the bible he regrets what he did, which is only possible by a creature capable of change. Regret means that he would do it differently now, so for example in 1 Samuel 15:10-11 when he said he regrets having made Saul King he means he wouldn’t do it now, therefore he has changed.
Also since you quoted something that also tells that Jesus can’t change, then he can’t be tempted nor die, since that requires change. Therefore Satan never had a chance to tempt him in the mountain, which makes it pointless, also he didn’t die when crucified which is a problem to the whole Christianity idea.
Jealousy
Like you quoted God is jealous, but also jealousy is a sin, and God can’t be near sin, so he can’t be near himself. You can’t claim he’s a special kind of jealous, jealousy as a whole is listed as an obvious sin in Galatians 5:20, there’s no “except when Jealousy is based on passion”
Temptation
But also he tests followers, for example Abraham. Those being tested can obey or not, not obeying god is a sin, therefore asking someone to do something they don’t want is tempting them to sin.
Lmao. You’re not serious.
I have yet to find one “contradiction” that actually holds any water. Usually it boils down to one writer describing angels as men while the other describes them as angels, or another writer mentioning details that another didn’t. If anything, it shows a lack of corroboration which makes them more reliable, especially between John and the Synoptics. There’s nothing that’s actually contradictory
There is no god and religion is a mental illness.
Oh wow, this is it, the killer argument! 🤣
The insane beauty of debating a religious nut is knowing that any logic can instantly be countered by them reaching into their pocket and . . . POOF! Magic.
EDIT: With that in mind, enjoy this link. Don’t bother coming back. I’ll just scoff derisively.