I have two kids under 2 years old and I have a friend who has a daughter the same age as mine.

My wife is friends with his wife and they talk often. She recently told my wife that my friend wants to have another kid, but she doesn’t appreciate how little he showed up with this first child and she wants to wait for his “dad instincts” to kick in before they have another child.

I found this surprising as I have gone out several times with my friend where we have taken our daughters for play dates and he always seemed like a kind and caring father to me. Very attentive to what his daughter was doing and always running after her. I also did not understand what “Dad instincts” meant.

So a few weeks ago we arrange to catch a game together at a local bar with a few other friends. I have not been able to get out much as two kids are very demanding, but I was looking forward to catching up with my friend because the other people we were meeting don’t have kids and my friend and I would have something common to talk about.

So we meet up and we initially talk about our kids. I ask how his family is and he does the same. I’m telling him all the things my kids have been up to and I can see that he is nodding and smiling, but did not seem to be listening to anything I was saying.

When I finish talking he suddenly says, “Hey look at who I have for my fantasy lineup this week,” and he breaks out his phone and starts showing me.

That was the moment I saw it. Exactly what his wife had been complaining about. I feel like my life has grown so much, but he was reminding me of what we were like 5 years ago or more.

Our friends showed up later and he does not bring up his family once. All he talked about with them was going to play golf and out to restaurants. He was making all these plans for the next two weeks and all I thought about was, “What about your wife and kid? Won’t they need you on those days?”

I didn’t know what to think of it at the time. I was just shocked that his priorities seemed so different when he has the same responsibilities I do and people counting on him to be around.

  • rockstarmode@lemmy.world
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    7 hours ago

    You sound reasonable, and I don’t have all the information, but maybe I can play devil’s advocate.

    Suppose your friend is actually a good dad, and is using his time without his kids around to catch up with his friends, listen to what’s topical in your life, and then do something other than talk about his kids?

    This is a non-rhetorical good faith question: should kids be the sole focus of their parent’s lives once they have them?

    I agree that kids need to be the top priority once people have them, no question there. But aren’t parents allowed to have lives of their own as well?

    I don’t have kids and I’m at the age where most of my friends have them. The folks I knew whose only focus was on their kids gradually phased out of the group. Many of those people ended up divorced unfortunately. The parents I see regularly spend most of their time on their kids, but also have hobbies and interests outside of just kid stuff.

    People who have their own lives in addition to being good parents seem to be happier and more well rounded. It also makes connecting with them easier for people without kids. I’m up to date on their kids, go to birthdays, and occasionally babysit. We have kid friendly dinners at each other’s homes, go camping with kids, etc… But we also go out once in awhile without them, catch games, play golf.

    I feel like that’s healthier.

  • laxu@sopuli.xyz
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    8 hours ago

    Maybe your friend doesn’t really want to talk about kids when they have some free time away from them and is possibly interacting with others who don’t have kids?

    As someone without kids…it’s not very interesting to hear about my friends’ kids. I understand they are a huge part of their lives - taking most of their time. But also being able to talk about other things matters.

  • IWW4@lemmy.zip
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    15 hours ago

    Do you notice your friends have wildly different priorities as you grow older?

    Absolutely and that happens long before you get the parenting approaches.

    I was part of a really tight knit quartet in high school.

    The composition was me, two dudes who went to my school who were one year ahead of me and another dude who was one year behind me and went to a different school. There were also a number of peripheral folks who often hung out with us.

    Starting halfway though my tenth grade year, I was with those three dudes all the time and it is fair to say there was at least five other folks who we all always Unguru out with.

    I graduated and went to a different university than all those guys and it was wild how fast we grew apart. One of the went to university and he and I had a lot in common. After the summer of my first year that quartet was done.

    Now when it comes to how much parenting impacts your long term relationships it is wild. It is amazing how bad so many people are at parenting and not just the guys.

  • Fyrnyx@kbin.melroy.org
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    19 hours ago

    As soon as any of my friends end up having children, then I start counting those days until it is over. Because I chose to be childfree and I won’t bother having kids. Nothing wrong with being a responsible parent but you do have to account for what could happen when friends drop like flies when there is that wedge in your friendship with them because of this contrast.

    • ComradeMiao@lemmy.world
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      17 hours ago

      I honestly don’t get this, it has caused zero issues with my friends. Other then having to take care of the children hanging out is hanging out

  • phdepressed@sh.itjust.works
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    1 day ago

    Being devil’s advocate here. I like to talk about my kid but I also know other people generally don’t care. You care about your kids its rare for other people, even friends and other parents. So idk whether just not mentioning them or caring about yours matters as to his actual dadness. I would also say that your friend may know he’s free those days for one reason or another. Maybe his wife has unreasonable expectations. The kids are always first but it is possible to make time for your relationship and yourself with some communication and luck. There are also often variations in which parent may be “primary” at times.

    I have heard and seen some parenting things done that are well outside what I/we would do. Sleep training at 2mo, a sorta family pacifier (toddler would drop it, dad/mom would put in their mouth then back in toddler mouth), the cry it out method, being super stringent about feeding times and amounts, allowing rolling walkers, letting baby play at 2am, piercing ears, circumcision, etc. These babies are still growing up fine as far as anyone can tell.

    Your friend and his wife need to communicate with each other and may be helped by couples therapy. You also need to communicate with your friend, judging him from a 2ndhand account by a person biased by their involvement and your own standards is wild.

  • dohpaz42@lemmy.world
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    1 day ago

    I wanted to take a moment to offer a different perspective. It sounds like your friend is disassociating. That doesn’t make him a bad dad. It just means he might be dealing with things that he is trying to protect himself from on an emotional level. I won’t try to conjecture what they are, because I don’t know him nor do I know his situation. And if you’re willing to take my advice, I’d suggest giving him the benefit of the doubt and just being there for him; whatever that may look like. You might even try to ask him about it (but be willing to accept that if there is something going on, he may not be ready or willing to talk about it).

    Good luck to your friend.

  • Scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech
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    1 day ago

    This is why I think everyone should be on board 100% before deciding to have kids. Those kids will grow up and remember their dad doing that, like I do mine. If you don’t want kids then great, just don’t have kids, but don’t hav kids to make your partner happy.

    • proudblond@lemmy.world
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      1 day ago

      It sounds like this guy was on board, if he wants another. But being on board with the ideal is different than being on board with whatever is actually gonna happen when those kids are in the picture. I’d say the same thing about a lot of things, namely marriage and relationships. A lot of people seem to only dream about all of the “good” parts without being realistic with themselves about the less rosy parts.

    • Anissem@lemmy.ml
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      1 day ago

      I’m really thankful I found someone who also doesn’t want kids as I’d probably just go along with it if so. Being a parent is an insane responsibility and there hasn’t been a moment in my life where I felt ready for it.

  • Suck_on_my_Presence@lemmy.world
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    1 day ago

    More of an answer to the title question, but absolutely.

    I left home at 18 to join the military, but my high school friends were still close knit. We’ve grown apart, but there are so many wild differences in the group as a whole now that we’re full fleged adults and have been for a little bit. We’re all so different now, it’s pretty wild.

    One had a kid early in her 20s and struggled to get through schooling while raising a kid and supporting her household. She found solid work and had to drop her degree to focus on that. One got into a big company and has fast tracked promotions until moving to another company for big money. Once settled into that, had kids and now is living the classic American upper middle class lifestyle. One happened upon an internship that completely changed her degree trajectory and now she’s incredibly happy in a position no one would have expected for her. I don’t know if kids are on the menu, but she’s certainly enjoying traveling for now.

    And then I’m sort of starting all over after ending a long term relationship and moving and getting a new group of friends locally and and and.

    So absolutely everyone has hugely different priorities. Maybe not as self centered as your mate’s, but life has really worked all of us into different paths.

  • YappyMonotheist@lemmy.world
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    1 day ago

    Lots of meh to horrible dads out there, and of course some of them might be people you know. Honestly, if your kids aren’t your priority you better be out there thinking hard about how to save humanity from self-destruction or doing some other very mentally taxing, prosocial activity, else how can it be condoned and how can I respect you as a grown adult?

    I doubt these instincts/attitudes will just “kick in” though. How many more years or how many more kids does a man need to understand the days for self-absorption and mindless hedonism are over? 😐

  • MynameisAllen@lemmy.zip
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    1 day ago

    I mean, yes and no.

    I have two childhood best friends, we all talk every day. We’re in our thirties now and in some ways have sharply diverted. I had a kid, one got married and a vasectomy immediately after. And the other is still a bachelor who enjoys time alone. However we’re all still working in Tech, we all still hold the same values for work life balance, we all still would be considered far left, and we all love each other and are very much there for one another

  • Angelusz@lemmy.world
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    1 day ago

    There is more than one way to ‘skin a cat’ as they say. Just because a specific ‘setup’ is common and appreciated by most, does not mean it is the best solution for all.

    Balance is paramount, communication is key. When it goes awry, there is something up in the relationship. Talks to have, problems to solve. When you stop doing that, is when things start to get difficult, fall apart.

    Talk to your friend, do not be afraid to ask about it - see if you can help, if you want.