Zendaya just plays an immature, “rebel without a cause” New Yorker instead of Chani, a strong and intelligent Fremen young lady who falls in love with and follows her Muad’dib, not just because of his prophetic abilities but also/mostly because of his character. But, in the current Western cultural understanding, that just wouldn’t fly as strong means selfish and reactive and intelligent means rebellious and lippy. She’s awed by Paul, as would be anyone surrounding him (to Paul’s chagrin when it changes those around him to more “robotic” beings as it does with Stilgar), but also understands him deeply and is his emotional pillar, while Paul’s the pillar to his entire community. They just wanted a “girl boss” and that’s what we had in Denis’ Dunes. 😔
I get where you’re coming from, and I do feel like Chani really suffered from the adaptation, but I felt like it was more due to screentime and not having internal thoughts than changes made. I felt her being skeptical at the beginning was both a great change to her character (it feels like she falls in love with the Muad’dib Paul becomes, not the Atreides he was) and a really good way to carry themes of anti-messianism into the movie where the book relied on philosophical asides. It also provides a natural foil to Stilgar’s zeal and Jessica’s manipulation, presenting Chani as more aligned with Paul himself.
It was unnecessary and disruptive (and what was that “Chani is a leader of an internal rebellion in the Fremen” all about in Dune Part 2?!), Chani served her purpose in Dune like pretty much other characters did besides the protagonists Paul and Leto II, who simply take more of the stage because, as prophetic beings infused with semi-omniscient knowledge, have more depth to them. The rest are mostly just people, and we all know people, but Dune was never about the characters… and maybe that’s why it cannot be adapted for the masses. I mean, even events like a jihad that kills billions and the death of Paul’s first child (was this even in the movie?! But sludge covered Baron Harkonnen was front and center, lol, without even mentioning his pedophilia!) are just brushed off, written in some sentences tops. The meat and potatoes of Dune are the philosophical explorations, in particular “how would anyone handle excess knowledge?”, and as such Chani played her role as much as Leto and Jessica did, you change the characters and you just muddle something clear. I didn’t even mind when they genderswapped Paul’s short-lived mentor in Arrakis, cause it really doesn’t matter much, but they replaced Chani with just Zendaya. They also put way more action scenes in it but didn’t show the very important dinner scene, didn’t properly explain why it was important to have a “male Bene Gesserit” (again, modern sensibilities), didn’t properly explain Paul’s visions and left it very inconsistent/inconclusive, but these long (beautiful, certainly) shots with empty silences were there, because that’s what matters in fricking DUNE…
For those who don’t care about the depth of Dune and the points Herbert tried to make, the movies are lovely. And for the ones who do, we’ll always have the books, so whatever, I guess. But I got my COVID shots quickly just to watch Dune Part One and I’m still a little bit salty, lol, that’s all.
You’re feigning ignorance then if you actually recall the books. Zendaya’s/Denis’ Chani and Herbert’s Chani are like night and day. And, again, what exactly was ‘misogynistic’ about my comment? And do I have to start copypasting passages of Dune and Messiah and make a comparative analysis with Denis’ Dune? It’s past midnight over here, my guy.
To be completely honest, Herbert’s Chani was pretty forgettable. Admittedly, it’s been a very long time since I’ve read anything Dune, but I truly cannot remember anything memorable about Chani in the books…
She’s Paul’s everything (and trying to keep her alive for as long as possible is the main reason he does anything in Messiah, basically) and mostly a supporting character in the books, and there’s nothing wrong with that… but Zendaya is a star and the West would’ve crucified Denis if he just let Chani be Chani. We both know it, that’s the core of the disagreement in this comment section, lol. Heretics and Chapterhouse have fantastic female protagonists, but I doubt we’ll get there, sadly.
If I’m understanding you correctly, you’re upset that he improved Chani? Or do you just prefer 1 dimensional women characters who are defined entirely by their man?
It’s not an improvement, not at all. Chani in the books is someone I can picture becoming the muse and pillar of a complex man burdened with knowledge and duty (which is narratively necessary in both Dune and Messiah!). Lippy, immature, irrationally rebellious and feisty Zendaya’s Chani is not that. Again, many books, including Herbert’s own later in the series, have female protagonists who are not “1 dimensional” (although none as shallow and silly as the girl boss Chani of Denis, who certainly isn’t 1 dimensional, lol 🙄) and are fantastic. And upset is a big word, more like “disappointed and dissatisfied”, but money follows audiences so I understand. 🤷
Zendaya just plays an immature, “rebel without a cause” New Yorker instead of Chani, a strong and intelligent Fremen young lady who falls in love with and follows her Muad’dib, not just because of his prophetic abilities but also/mostly because of his character. But, in the current Western cultural understanding, that just wouldn’t fly as strong means selfish and reactive and intelligent means rebellious and lippy. She’s awed by Paul, as would be anyone surrounding him (to Paul’s chagrin when it changes those around him to more “robotic” beings as it does with Stilgar), but also understands him deeply and is his emotional pillar, while Paul’s the pillar to his entire community. They just wanted a “girl boss” and that’s what we had in Denis’ Dunes. 😔
I get where you’re coming from, and I do feel like Chani really suffered from the adaptation, but I felt like it was more due to screentime and not having internal thoughts than changes made. I felt her being skeptical at the beginning was both a great change to her character (it feels like she falls in love with the Muad’dib Paul becomes, not the Atreides he was) and a really good way to carry themes of anti-messianism into the movie where the book relied on philosophical asides. It also provides a natural foil to Stilgar’s zeal and Jessica’s manipulation, presenting Chani as more aligned with Paul himself.
It was unnecessary and disruptive (and what was that “Chani is a leader of an internal rebellion in the Fremen” all about in Dune Part 2?!), Chani served her purpose in Dune like pretty much other characters did besides the protagonists Paul and Leto II, who simply take more of the stage because, as prophetic beings infused with semi-omniscient knowledge, have more depth to them. The rest are mostly just people, and we all know people, but Dune was never about the characters… and maybe that’s why it cannot be adapted for the masses. I mean, even events like a jihad that kills billions and the death of Paul’s first child (was this even in the movie?! But sludge covered Baron Harkonnen was front and center, lol, without even mentioning his pedophilia!) are just brushed off, written in some sentences tops. The meat and potatoes of Dune are the philosophical explorations, in particular “how would anyone handle excess knowledge?”, and as such Chani played her role as much as Leto and Jessica did, you change the characters and you just muddle something clear. I didn’t even mind when they genderswapped Paul’s short-lived mentor in Arrakis, cause it really doesn’t matter much, but they replaced Chani with just Zendaya. They also put way more action scenes in it but didn’t show the very important dinner scene, didn’t properly explain why it was important to have a “male Bene Gesserit” (again, modern sensibilities), didn’t properly explain Paul’s visions and left it very inconsistent/inconclusive, but these long (beautiful, certainly) shots with empty silences were there, because that’s what matters in fricking DUNE…
For those who don’t care about the depth of Dune and the points Herbert tried to make, the movies are lovely. And for the ones who do, we’ll always have the books, so whatever, I guess. But I got my COVID shots quickly just to watch Dune Part One and I’m still a little bit salty, lol, that’s all.
Calling Zendaya’s Chani a girl boss New Yorker seems incredibly misogynistic to me.
I don’t understand what “woman hating subtext” you read from my comment but, if you read the books, it will just seem appropriate.
I’ve read all of them after Foundation it’s my favorite science fiction series.
You’re feigning ignorance then if you actually recall the books. Zendaya’s/Denis’ Chani and Herbert’s Chani are like night and day. And, again, what exactly was ‘misogynistic’ about my comment? And do I have to start copypasting passages of Dune and Messiah and make a comparative analysis with Denis’ Dune? It’s past midnight over here, my guy.
To be completely honest, Herbert’s Chani was pretty forgettable. Admittedly, it’s been a very long time since I’ve read anything Dune, but I truly cannot remember anything memorable about Chani in the books…
She’s Paul’s everything (and trying to keep her alive for as long as possible is the main reason he does anything in Messiah, basically) and mostly a supporting character in the books, and there’s nothing wrong with that… but Zendaya is a star and the West would’ve crucified Denis if he just let Chani be Chani. We both know it, that’s the core of the disagreement in this comment section, lol. Heretics and Chapterhouse have fantastic female protagonists, but I doubt we’ll get there, sadly.
Literally her only trait that I can remember.
If I’m understanding you correctly, you’re upset that he improved Chani? Or do you just prefer 1 dimensional women characters who are defined entirely by their man?
It’s not an improvement, not at all. Chani in the books is someone I can picture becoming the muse and pillar of a complex man burdened with knowledge and duty (which is narratively necessary in both Dune and Messiah!). Lippy, immature, irrationally rebellious and feisty Zendaya’s Chani is not that. Again, many books, including Herbert’s own later in the series, have female protagonists who are not “1 dimensional” (although none as shallow and silly as the girl boss Chani of Denis, who certainly isn’t 1 dimensional, lol 🙄) and are fantastic. And upset is a big word, more like “disappointed and dissatisfied”, but money follows audiences so I understand. 🤷
Is this “the west” here in the room with us?
Unless Lemmings suddenly became majority Pakistani/Maori/Persian/Nigerian/Dagestani/Indonesian/Algerian/etc., ofc! 😅
Honestly it feels like you dislike the actor and are projecting it on to the character.
You’re the king/queen of avoidance.