Can just use avif instead, it holds an AV1 stream and acts like gifs/images do WRT looping — also very broad support (more than AV1 in WebM containers).
Demonstration:
Edit: switched to an example with simpler decode requirements.
I checked that app’s source code, and basically they’re doing their own avif decode call instead of relying on a browser/webview to handle it. So essentially they forgot/don’t know/don’t intend to implement animated avif. Looks like they also use the aom reference decoder instead of using something faster like dav1d.
(on Arctic on ios) the uploaded image displays as a static image for me. Even clicking on it and waiting, it doesn’t seem to animate :T
Edit: I checked again through the Voyager app, and it did indeed load, though it took around 45-60 seconds* for it to get through the entire animation before it started looping again, albeit at the same speed as the first playthrough.
I chalked it up to the outdated hardware, as you mentioned in your reply. Cheers! :)
Apple has limited support for AV1 streams (yes, even for software decode) unless on very recent hardware.
Here’s an AV1 stream inside a webm container for comparison, would be interesting to see if that works over the avif container on your stack.
Ah yeah, that would explain it - my phone is now pretty outdated (I’m on a 12) - I clicked on the image link in your response but it didn’t load for me, unfortunately.
I’m not sure if that’s a result of my outdated hardware or if I perhaps clicked on it before it had a chance to process your upload, but you seem much more knowledgeable than I, so I’m going to assume it’s my hardware. I appreciate the response and the second attempt, though! :)
It’s an intentional behavior by Apple. Basically they just don’t support AV1 videostreams unless the hardware you’re using has a hardware decoder (read: very new). They could support it using software decode (what browsers typically do for AV1 inside avif containers) but… for whatever reasons don’t.
I do regularly. However apple users are largely the bane of this. Apple’s support for things can be very slow and spotty. As long as you keep it extremely old and basic. Say h264 they’ll be able to see. A lot of apple mobile devices could support h265 but apple doesn’t. My last couple of mobile devices have supported it for nearly a decade. But apple enabling it on their mobile hardware hasn’t been anywhere near that long. Apple will hopefully have AV1 support common by the time AV3 is released and AV2 widely supported by the 2030s.
Oh yes with respect to Avif you are correct. I was more referring to multimedia messages in general. But you are correct about Avif. That format in particular is not well supported a lot of places. I know Linux is probably one of the few areas it sees much. Windows is a much different story and I’m sure Apple desktops as well.
Sadly no. Most browsers don’t render static JXL by default yet. Let alone animated. I wish they would. Though for most things regular video transport streams will usually be as good or better. Honestly at this point animated image formats really are kind of a niche and not necessarily super useful at this point. Apng for instance when it was created nearly 20 years ago made some sense. Today now that it’s finally getting supported it doesn’t make as much sense.
Discord, Signal and Whatsapp all let you send any video format I’ve ever tried. I presume the same is true for Messenger and whatever else people use to communicate nowadays. I genuinely can’t think of anything that would support GIF but not various video formats.
That works out if you’re from Europe or somewhere else where using third party messaging apps is common but in the US we primarily use text messaging apps which don’t really support webm or avif
I used to love optimising images in gif format. I would make like 4–30kb memes and animations for my friends in Photoshop CS2. It’s actually extremely efficient and lightweight if you do it right… You have cool tools like transparency between frames and unbroken colour blocks don’t take any additional storage space. There’s nothing wrong with gif.
The problem is how people use them. We take a live action video file and shove it through an automated converter tool that doesn’t give a shit about efficiency and will do a complete repaint between frames and use 256+ colour palette. Then you end up with an ugly dithered overcooked piece of shit 50mb 10 second animation. Gif was not designed for this…
Please stop making gifs at all. It’s a terrible format that creates massive files that look like shit.
Webm is supported almost everywhere now and manages better quality at higher framerates and smaller file sizes.
Counterpoint: GIFs loop by default in basically every app, WEBM doesn’t
Can just use avif instead, it holds an AV1 stream and acts like gifs/images do WRT looping — also very broad support (more than AV1 in WebM containers).
Demonstration:
Edit: switched to an example with simpler decode requirements.
Your demonstration is a sluggishly loading static image on my end, so I guess support isnt that widespread :P
(Im using the app “Summit”)
I checked that app’s source code, and basically they’re doing their own avif decode call instead of relying on a browser/webview to handle it. So essentially they forgot/don’t know/don’t intend to implement animated avif. Looks like they also use the aom reference decoder instead of using something faster like dav1d.
Static image, also Summit.
Static image, Eternity.
Boost for Lemmy is not a fan.
That’s caused by bad regex in the app, it’s getting confused about domains.
e: attempted fix by using an aliased domain.
Works great as a static image. Would probably be better if it actually played…
It’s unfortunately not that simple. The AVIF doesn’t load at Jerboa, for example :/
(on Arctic on ios) the uploaded image displays as a static image for me. Even clicking on it and waiting, it doesn’t seem to animate :T
Edit: I checked again through the Voyager app, and it did indeed load, though it took around 45-60 seconds* for it to get through the entire animation before it started looping again, albeit at the same speed as the first playthrough.
I chalked it up to the outdated hardware, as you mentioned in your reply. Cheers! :)
Apple has limited support for AV1 streams (yes, even for software decode) unless on very recent hardware. Here’s an AV1 stream inside a webm container for comparison, would be interesting to see if that works over the avif container on your stack.
This doesn’t work for me but the original one you posted does (Voyager, iPhone 14 pro)
Very interesting, thank you!
Random Android phone on Voyager; yes.
Ah yeah, that would explain it - my phone is now pretty outdated (I’m on a 12) - I clicked on the image link in your response but it didn’t load for me, unfortunately.
I’m not sure if that’s a result of my outdated hardware or if I perhaps clicked on it before it had a chance to process your upload, but you seem much more knowledgeable than I, so I’m going to assume it’s my hardware. I appreciate the response and the second attempt, though! :)
It’s an intentional behavior by Apple. Basically they just don’t support AV1 videostreams unless the hardware you’re using has a hardware decoder (read: very new). They could support it using software decode (what browsers typically do for AV1 inside avif containers) but… for whatever reasons don’t.
Haha, ye$, for rea$on$, I’m $ure… :D
I’m not sure demand for AV1 is enough to ship units
Probably either laziness or they want to avoid software decoding in general for performance reasons
your demo is a static image.
For the record, this is static in my Lemmy app (Summit).
Your example image doesn’t work in boost while the gif above does :/
Let me know when I can text one of these to someone
I do regularly. However apple users are largely the bane of this. Apple’s support for things can be very slow and spotty. As long as you keep it extremely old and basic. Say h264 they’ll be able to see. A lot of apple mobile devices could support h265 but apple doesn’t. My last couple of mobile devices have supported it for nearly a decade. But apple enabling it on their mobile hardware hasn’t been anywhere near that long. Apple will hopefully have AV1 support common by the time AV3 is released and AV2 widely supported by the 2030s.
Apple only supports avif on paper and doesn’t actually support avif in iMessage in practice. It won’t display properly and they don’t care to fix it.
On the Android side Google Messages Doesn’t appear to support avif at all
Oh yes with respect to Avif you are correct. I was more referring to multimedia messages in general. But you are correct about Avif. That format in particular is not well supported a lot of places. I know Linux is probably one of the few areas it sees much. Windows is a much different story and I’m sure Apple desktops as well.
an Osman classic
Fwiw it works on the desktop’s alexandrite ui and on the thunder app
on boost its a little slow but time quality.
better than most moving images in comments!
Anybody who has compared animated WebM vs animated JPEG XL?
Sadly no. Most browsers don’t render static JXL by default yet. Let alone animated. I wish they would. Though for most things regular video transport streams will usually be as good or better. Honestly at this point animated image formats really are kind of a niche and not necessarily super useful at this point. Apng for instance when it was created nearly 20 years ago made some sense. Today now that it’s finally getting supported it doesn’t make as much sense.
Problem is the medium people use to send GIFs to each other doesn’t support any alternatives
Discord, Signal and Whatsapp all let you send any video format I’ve ever tried. I presume the same is true for Messenger and whatever else people use to communicate nowadays. I genuinely can’t think of anything that would support GIF but not various video formats.
That works out if you’re from Europe or somewhere else where using third party messaging apps is common but in the US we primarily use text messaging apps which don’t really support webm or avif
I used to love optimising images in gif format. I would make like 4–30kb memes and animations for my friends in Photoshop CS2. It’s actually extremely efficient and lightweight if you do it right… You have cool tools like transparency between frames and unbroken colour blocks don’t take any additional storage space. There’s nothing wrong with gif.
The problem is how people use them. We take a live action video file and shove it through an automated converter tool that doesn’t give a shit about efficiency and will do a complete repaint between frames and use 256+ colour palette. Then you end up with an ugly dithered overcooked piece of shit 50mb 10 second animation. Gif was not designed for this…
I thought the file size was part of the format specification, no?
Yes? I don’t really understand the question.
Couldn’t APNG be considered?
I wasn’t even aware of APNG or AVIF before this thread. Webm was just the first alternative for GIFs that came to mind.
Looking at this APNG also seems to result in pretty large files whereas AVIF appears to have by far the best compression.
AVIF looks like the best alternative for sending short meme clips to people, which I assume is most peoples use case for GIFs.
that’s a static image. not at all animated.
perhaps if you open the Wiki link where the image was taken from, for me it’s animated on Voyager.