This is self explanatory; to all who do not support the idea of ownership, there shall be no more funding, regardless of their game’s quality.
Advice:
buy from GOG, avoid single player games which require internet connection or 3 party launchers.
Repost from reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/StopKillingGames/comments/1ugzirg/stoppayinggames/
If buying is not ownership, piracy is not stealing.
Fuck em.
Piracy isn’t stealing either way, but this slogan is good. We need more people to pirate than ever before.
At this point I think it’s safe to assume all large companies are evil and so piracy of any software/media/etc created by a large company is the moral thing to do.
It really sucks but I think this is the case. I can’t even read an ebook half the time with proper ownership. It’s either Amazon exclusive and then I don’t own it, or it happens to go on kobo/humble bundle DRM free. Every now and again the author sells things direct DRM free and I’ll buy from them.
I’m not giving Amazon a penny for their ebook scam library where they can change anything on a whim. It’s some serious 1984 shit, they can change the contents of the ebook whenever they want.
You can de-DRM your kobo ebooks i think. They havent blocked pc downloads like amazon did.
I dont worry much about kobo, they havent tried to do anything egregiously anti-consumer to me
I don’t worry about kobo, but I can’t find everything on there. Since Dungeon Crawler Carl is only on Amazon it seems like he has a publishing deal with them or something. It just sucks I can’t actually buy to own those books without getting physical copies.
I get that. I just buy the physical book if kobo dont deal.
I think it’s weird that people are okay with libraries for books, but when it comes to video games I’m suddenly entitled and have a moral obligation to give artists my money.
This is a bad argument. Many libraries do have movies, and I’ve seen several with video games.
You have to elaborate on how it’s a bad argument. The existence of games at libraries doesn’t contradict what I’m saying at all.
People argue it’s immoral to pirate games because the artists must be compensated, but no one says that about buying used media or loaning from the library even though the artist still receives nothing.
Both loaning and used sales are shown to increase new book sales, so why wouldn’t the same be true for games?
You said that piracy is a moral imperative under these circumstances, and I’m going further to say it was never immoral in the first place.
Also of note is that libraries can’t loan out games for which there is no physical copy, which means big publishers are actively killing library availability as well.
Authors do get payed from libraries.
Source: am author, get yearly royalties from libraries.
Still surprised “Jorking with Gorkur” sells as well as it does.
Sells better than “Ferkin’ with Gherkin”, that’s for sure.
To elaborate, how it worked for me is, when I published my book digitally, the store offered me to set a price for a “Library copy”. They recommend making this a higher price than the base copy, and then a digital library service will let people rent that copy out infinitely. Many authors take the default arrangement, since they’re just happy to have more people reading the work, BUT want to put a basic limiter on it (limited borrow copies) since we’re in the age of script kiddies, resellers, opportunistic collectors, etc.
This apparently varies by country. In countries where it’s not the case, the library system is not killing book sales or authorship.
People wouldn’t make movies or games if they didn’t get money for it.
What you seem to be after is called “slavery”.
Librarians don’t get dressed up in balaclavas and hit their nearest book store to get more books. No you’re not entitled to artist‘s work for free.
Do you think video game piracy involves knocking off a GameStop?
I’m going to be honest, this sounds like an astroturf campaign trying to reduce SKG into absurdity to harm it’s credibility.
This is list of companies who lobbied against stop killing games
Advice:
Just pirate.
I’m assuming this also applies to Consoles as well: Sony removed purchased movies from people’s Sony Pictures Core app. I wonder if, or when, they’ll decide to do the same to games.
If it does come to that: what are our options as console gamers (other than piracy)? Buying physical discs?
I kinda hate to say it, but consoles are designed with these companies in mind. The whole idea of locking the ecosystem to only companies Sony / Microsoft / Nintendo approves of and making the process to get in expensive, time consuming, and often hostile to creative autonomy, incentivizes exactly these kinds of companies to go all in, since they have plenty of money and know with a captive audience they will get more out of it.
Prices kind of suck right now, so there’s no easy solution. But the only real long term solution is to move to an open platform where you have the control, not them. And that’s going to require sacrifice, because the deck is stacked against you. Or if you have enough faith, for enough people to stand up when they need to. Because the power for you yourself to resist was intentionally already taken from you.
What would be an open platform for consoles?
I mean it really depends on what your wishes would be. If you’re thinking big and long term then someone could really go all in on capturing the console crowd with an entirely new console ecosystem. You could definitely simplify an OS like Linux to be a lot more to be more console oriented, such as what SteamOS is already trying to do for Steamdeck and the Steam machine. Even though that will be a balancing act with the openness of the system, since ‘making sure you can’t easily break this’ also makes it hard or impossible to break out of it in case of a change of heart.
But the whole thing with open systems is that they can do very similar things to other open systems. Which is why Linux and Windows (and sometimes Mac) are packed together under the same umbrella. So it would have to content with those three and provide clear upsides to developers, businesses, or players over those, which is hard. That’s part of the reason why the big businesses love consoles, because the freedom they take from players, double as tools for them to earn more money.
Most realistically in that route, would be for either Sony, Xbox, or Nintendo, to change their tune and go down that route instead. But that would require immense force from the players to offset the profit lost from changing the status quo. So it really isn’t that realistic sadly. Xbox wouldn’t do it anyways because it’s essentially already even more locked down Windows. Nintendo relies on their exclusives to sell their consoles. Sony would be least unlikely to do it but they recently stopped selling their exclusives on PC because (almost) nobody jumped ship back to Playstation.
The closest and ‘easiest’ jump in the short term is probably to small formfactor PC hooked up to your TV using eg. SteamOS. Controller support is pretty widely supported nowadays. And since most console game developers also develop for PC, you won’t have any issue missing out on your games unless it’s Nintendo or exclusives (but that’s probably another reason to jump too). With some technical knowledge you could do it without spending a single cent on Steam / Valve if that’s your concern. Since you could just run a Linux based system on a mini-PC or console formfactor with eg. Brazzite or another console OS lookalike.
That makes sense. Regarding your comment re:
“You could definitely simplify an OS like Linux to be more console oriented
I keep seeing videos on YouTube of people installing Ubuntu on their PS5’s - do you think this will gain traction with Sony and Microsoft and allow consumers to install a Linux distro officially like how Steam has SteamOS?
I also notice that when there is a discussion or video regarding modding a console, it’s to “preserve” its longevity rather than having a practical use.
Installing Linux on PS5 is an exploit as far as I understand it, and requires specific software versions that are already long outdated at this point. But PS5 already runs a Unix like kernel as far as I know. So yes, it would be possible to do it on them if Sony or Microsoft allowed it. Though I doubt they ever will since you could not run Playstation or Xbox games on Linux without huge investment from their side. It’s a solution for those looking to jump without the hardware cost, but I am a little anxious in recommending it since Sony full well considers it still their device. And Nintendo has recently shown they aren’t shy from just
brickingbanning your device from their services if they think you’re not using it the way they want, I would expect the same from Sony. But if you do it right, probably no way for them to find out. But you could never go back to it just being a Playstation 5 too. In the end it’s essentially the same path as my first proposal.I also notice that when there is a discussion or video regarding modding a console, it’s to “preserve” its longevity rather than having a practical use.
I think that’s in part because it’s an attempt to tiptoe around the ‘red lines’ of console manufacturers. It’s trying to stay as inoffensive as possible so that it doesn’t get put into the same bag as emulators or third party tools to circumvent DRM.
EDIT: The switch example wasn’t bricked, but it was banned from using the official services, which isn’t much better, but still a distinction to be made.
Rockstar should be added to this list.
Rockstar Games, Inc. is an American video game publisher based in New York City. The company was established in December 1998 as a subsidiary of Take-Two Interactive.
Take-Two is already on the list, and also covers 2K and Zynga.
So really the list should show all the subsidaries. Because there’s probably a decent number of people that don’t know.
You don’t need to list every company.
You know which ones are the big ones. If you see a “6” next to a game title, don’t pay for it. No indie game dev makes 5 sequels to a game.
I would never buy a car that I had to store in someone else’s garage.
I get the point but wouldn’t that practically be your garage at that point?
Mostly. But I fear the garage owner may change the locks one day.
ah, just pirate the keyz, kinda what i did anyways kinda
This is pretty much impossible. I don’t think y’all realize how much space those corporations control.
It’s like trying to boycott Nestle.
You say that as if piracy isn’t just a few clicks away.
A better option is to buy games that is not included on this type of lists.
Fuck piracy. The artist is worthy of their hire.
The artist has already been payed by the time the game hits the shelf, sales only go to the people on top.
This is such an incredible level of magical thinking that most 12 year olds already grow out of.
What do you think happens with the artists if the game doesn’t sell?
What do you think happens to the genre if the game doesn’t sell?
People are complaining about live-service games, but holy fuck, can you not see that these are the direct response to piracy? You literally cannot pirate these games, because they require constant connection to the servers that verify if you have a license.
Paid actor or just retard?
There’s clear data showing piracy almost never has a negative impact on sales. If anything, it’s usually a positive impact. And the exceptions to this are not video games.
Don’t kid yourself. The artists will get fired either way. Whether or not the game sells well will not change anything. Aside from the point above.
Anti-piracy advocates like you are the cancer of the gamer community. You’re doing absolutely nothing for the world, but spewing corporate propaganda that is based on nothing but the words of an ultra rich pedophile.
There’s clear data showing piracy almost never has a negative impact on sales. If anything, it’s usually a positive impact. And the exceptions to this are not video games.
Please share! Would love to read about it!
There was a big study the EU commissioned to show negative effects of piracy on sales of various media. When it concluded that there’s no negative impact, the EU decided not to release it. The only exception in the study were recent big movie releases, which did see significant (about 5%) financial losses due to piracy.
Link: https://www.engadget.com/2017-09-22-eu-suppressed-study-piracy-no-sales-impact.html
In 2016, the Technology Policy Institute looked at 25 piracy-related studies to analyze the combined data. According to them, there was a negative effect shown in 22 out of 25 studies. However, they also noted that it’s a very complex question, and that the results were ‘economic theory inconclusive’.
When you take a look at these studies, you will very quickly notice a trend. They’re always published by big, very much pro-copyright corporations. They use vague terms and employ questionable methodology.
A study showing a positive impact of piracy on video game sales (but negative for music). Music and movies seem to be the most likely to actually suffer from piracy.
While it may be difficult to gauge whether piracy is overall beneficial or harmful to any industry, it seems to be quite clear that for video games specifically, it does not present any threat to sales.
Bonus: several successful studios are getting closed, and others will face layoffs. Because it literally doesn’t make a difference how well a game performs. If it’s a big corporation - layoffs will continue happening.
Your two statements have nothing to do with each other. Artists don’t get paid for the amount of copies sold, that’s executives and shareholders. Unless you’re talking about an indie company with shared ownership, which the companies in the post decidedly are not. Artists just care about their game being played and enjoyed, something the scummy practices of these suits actively prevents.
Artists don’t get paid for the amount of copies sold, that’s executives and shareholders
Sales numbers are the telemetry execs use when deciding what games to green-light.
Why do you think suddenly everybody was making live-service games? Battle Royale first, then hero shooters, and now extraction shooters? These games are reporting great income because it’s not possible to pirate them. Add MTX on top and suddenly everybody and their mother wants a cut.
Why do you think even GTA became a live-service game, even when it has a single-player story?
Why do you think more and more games have launchers that require people signing in to some accounts to verify if they made the purchase?
All the crap you people are mostly moaning about are a direct result of piracy.
Your point being? I’m well aware these are because of piracy, it doesn’t change my point. If you’re a shitty company intent on abusing your customers to extract as much money from them, of course you’re going to find any way to do it and take away their forms of protest. But in the end, an artist still gets paid for whichever game they end up greenlighting, and not for the amount of copies sold afterwards. Hell they might not even get paid at all since these are the same kind of companies that would rather fire them for AI.
And for the not so shitty companies, they simply make sure people have no reason to pirate them, and there’s a hell of a lot more of those. They just don’t make unreasonable amounts of money, almost like that’s antithetical to treating your customers fairly.
My point being: games and art are not necessities. Don’t be a little bitch, if you want to have them, pay for them. If you don’t want to support the company under which the game was made, wait for a massive sale on Steam or some such.
Giving “a shitty company intent on abusing your customers to extract as much money from them” is not done by pirating the game (which makes them try to extract even more money out of their clients), it’s by financially supporting the companies and creators who don’t do that.
Lots of creators get bonuses or royalties based on sales.
My bigger point is that piracy is bullshit. Either pay the price asked because you want that game or movie so bad, or say the cost is too high and walk away entirely.
Pirating something you’re too much of a skinflint to buy is super immature “I want to have my cake and eat it too” mentality. People too spineless to make even a miniscule sacrifice for their beliefs.
Either pay the price asked because you want that game or movie so bad, or say the cost is too high and walk away entirely.
I don’t entirely disagree with this regarding newer content, and I personally don’t pirate that… but I will happily subvert a system of near perma-copyright that was never meant to exist, goes entirely against key concepts around copyright when it was first conceived, and only exists due to extreme regulatory capture. It has been perverted far beyond its intent.
7 years. Copyright was meant to last about 7 years. There was, at that time, an acknowledgment that culture belongs to society as a whole and shouldn’t be monopolized by one person, stifling innovation (I mean, Disney is basically founded on reworking others’ stories; would they ever have hit it big if they couldn’t have done that? Hard to say…)… copyright was seen as a sort of necessary evil to give an artist a few years of a legal monopoly to incentivize art creation.
That’s about the cutoff I use. If it’s older than 7 years, you’ve had your chance to make a buck. Even moreso today… 7 years is far more time today to actually exploit your monopoly, information is just so quickly disseminated. I tried to show my kid Charlie Brown Christmas this last holiday season… absolutely criminal that people can still gatekeep that for money, that kind of thing should belong to society as a whole. Zero qualms about going to the high seas for that kind of thing.
tl;dr I think the ethics of piracy are nuanced, but I absolutely do not buy the argument that the current law around copyright is ethical as it stands and as an unethical law, it should be subverted.
Not lots sadly. There are certainly some that have a big enough public profile to demand a share, but those are few and far between, and are often doing pretty well for themselves already. To 99% of the people in the industry the response to “I want to get a cut of the game’s profits” is “you can find another place to work then.”
I don’t entirely disagree with your bigger point. At some point you have to just step away from companies that are set on abusing you. But I don’t agree that it’s immature or skinflinty. That seems to be a rather uncharitable take perhaps lacking in understanding and perspective of why people pirate. There are pirates that take for the sake of it, but that’s not mostly the case. Piracy is trackable to a certain degree, and so it is feedback that people want to give you money, but are protesting your decisions. As has been said, piracy is a service problem. People tend to have no problem parting with their money in a fair exchange, and so they often don’t, even if they could.
Wanting to be treated fairly and not taking abuse is the opposite of immature in my opinion, how much it costs doesn’t even factor into it. Some fights you fight on principle. Too many people accept being taken advantage of in this world, making it worse for everyone else. And without those people piracy would also have been unneeded, because these companies often opt to not fix their issues and instead enshittify harder to squeeze more out of the people that keep paying.
There’s also a huge psychological aspect to it. Pirates often still bond with friends over games and those friends can end up buying, and pirates often still contribute to fan communities. Both of these are hard to let go of. They also happen to still help the original game stay relevant despite pirating, so yes, quitting entirely is more effective of a boycott. But also not being able to sell the experience to someone that has already experienced it is also more permanent, and allows that person to remain in their respective communities. Piracy just hits the sweet spot between quitting and no longer directly supporting, which is why people often end up there. And for creators that have to live under the thumb of executives that sabotage their success with hostile business practices, they would much rather you be there than somewhere else, while they try to improve the situation from the inside.
Sadly, the answer is probably that those creatives need to deprive the corporations of their products. Starve the beast. Hard to do that if you can’t afford rent, though…
I don’t mind people pirating ROMs or movies or music they’ve purchased previously and are no longer available in a reasonable manner. I do that myself from time to time. I don’t really “agree” with the concept of only buying a license instead of a copy, so I just see that behavior as addressing the obvious and IMO immoral imbalance.
I don’t have any sympathy for people who steal shit because they’re simultaneously unwilling to pay for it and unwilling to have the strength of character to walk away. I understand your points about social connections via game communities but I think that’s part of the cost of standing on principles. You can still stay in touch with friends from games without playing those games. I walked away from WoW and Blizzard in general for example due to their chain of bad decisions (like liquidating their QA and GM/CM staff in favor of chatbots that do a terrible job) but still occasionally touch base with people in those communities to see how they’re doing.
That’s fair. I just think like your second part, most people have their reasons like that. But you’re correct the culture does also simultaneously allow people that pirate just for free stuff to have it easy. But If the companies don’t like it, they can fix that. Currently to them it’s just the cost of doing business their way. People drove to Netflix and Steam in hordes when they made a service that was easier and better than pirating. Netflix regressed since then, but Steam still shows it’s possible. It just takes an industry as a whole willing to avoid the dark patterns that lead people to piracy.
Most AAA studios have bonus programs in place for sales up to around a year after release - to theoretically make up for the extremely poor baseline salaries. Artists do in fact get paid for the amount of copies sold.
A bonus is not the same as a percentage cut of sales. Yes, bonuses exist and they can correlate with the success of a game in the best case, but they can (and also often) completely do not, plenty of stories of people getting laid off even if the game does well. These companies are so big they do not hold onto their staff as valuable assets, but as replaceable cogs. And it’s also why a lot of artists work on a contract basis and just don’t get any bonus to begin with.
And ‘to make up for extremely poor baseline salaries’… That’s not a thing as far as I know, and if it is where you are, it shouldn’t be a thing. It would be the game industry equivalent of tipping culture. Steal from workers ahead of time so you can punish them if the suits’ stupid business decisions don’t work out, awesome.
EDIT: Perhaps you’re referring to the fact that artists get paid badly at all, in which case, sure. But those bonuses aren’t to make up for that.
It’s like trying to boycott Nestle.
Sooo, like… entirely possible with some effort?
“Some effort” varies widely on how privileged you are to have wide selections to choose from where you get your groceries.
Games are not groceries, the privileged are already the ones who are gamers.
We’re talking about food, not games.
You’re talking about food. Everyone else is talking about video games here.
I’m talking about how surprisingly complex it is to avoid a diversified corporation, using Nestle as an example. Is this really that hard to follow?
Except your point is entirely irrelevant when faced with the reality that video games, especially AAA video games, are a luxury item.
There’s a major difference between avoiding cheap chocolate and avoiding video game companies. I can’t believe that I’m even having to dictate this.
Edit: by the way, it isn’t hard to avoid Nestle products either
May depends on place, but I believe most of globe is fairly easy to avoid nestle, even with cheaper alternatives.
For games, until following most famous games, theres lot of alternatives to aaaa games, that are often way clearer of bugs on release date, often cheaper, and don’t require 5090 to work on medium details in 1080p. Few games like gta-clone, sims-like or diablo-like may be unique on their own, it would be even hard to ignore them in social/popculture aspect, so many gonna compare everything to few biggest. Still it is about paying them lot, preorders or throwing monies at worthless dlc day1 horse armors… We can ez avoid lot of that.
I’ve not purchased a nestle product in over a decade. Skill issue?
Honestly: doubt. “Nestle” is not only stuff that has their name on it
👍
Are the companies shown in the picture selected on what basis? Are they sorted for anti consumer practices or what? Bc like what did SEGA do
The list is so confusing… ESL is an e-sports organisation, they do e-sport events, they don’t make games. Why are they on the list? Why is Netflix on the list??
And why is Riot on the list? Their games are free, we’re literally not paying for the games, we’re paying for the in-game store crap (if at all)…
Why is Netflix on the list??
Because it does make games and is part of the anti-stopkillinggames lobby.
And why is Riot on the list?
Shit game company in general. Also part of the lobby if I remember correctly.
ESL is an e-sports organisation, they do e-sport events, they don’t make games. Why are they on the list?
This one I’m not sure. Probably part of the lobby as well? Can’t confirm right now, but a lot ot companies you haven’t even heard about are lobbying against it.
Who lobbied against stop killing games
Segas been killing it recently, no hate from me
Looks at list… oh neat I’m already doing this. Thanks indi games and GOG/steam sale
???
Steam sells you a license. You don’t own the game. You own a license to access that game from Steam.
Yes, yet they do respect that licence and customers… so far, we trust them mostly.
Once day, Steam may be gone from market, replace by another service, who knows, and our libraries be gone by turning servers down - there is a possibility. But I struggle to imagine Steam would delet a game from my purchases without refunds and without any really serious reason, like few others do.
Didn’t they have a system that makes all games DRM free if something like that happenned or somwthing like that?
Guess You mean GoG, they do offer most games as fully downloadable installer and most licences fully allows You to keep them forever, even if servers and services of Gog goes down. Not all of them, as they also offer games with separate launchers and stuff. Some games may be online only, like mmo genre, not much to do here, even if You manage to get all files stored. There’s always chance publisher takes the game off the store, or there may be some legal issues. Gog still trying to provide fully offline installers as much as possible, or even provide own, (semi) unofficial patches to old games to make them run smoothly on new operating systems (not intended to by original devs).
Much awesome, even if cannot say all games DRM free.
No, I know GOG provides plenty of DRM-free games, what I meant is, I remember something about Steam having a system to make games DRM-free in case they went under or something. Maybe it was something different or even misinformation, though.
Oh, surely GoG have lots and lots of drm-free games. It is big part of store, mentioned in ads and many interviews. They actively providing more and more drm-free, probably even silently cheer up SKG (even if avoiding saying this loud).
My point was, not every single game on Gog store is drm-free.
That’s how all software, except Free Software, works. Most media as well (except copyleft).
The game is downloaded and installed on your machine.
It also is from the other vendors, other wise you could not play offline games aside from all games being very slow probs. They have DRM, you cannot play most games without a launcher (there are some games, most of my steam library is mostly DRM free but maybe cuz they were indie games) unless you crack it.
And requires authentication via Steam to launch. No steam, no game.
At least not unless third parties come up with a workaround.
There are many DRM free games on Steam that don’t require the Steam client to run once downloaded
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUAX0gnZ3Nw
Watch, learn.
I read this as stop PLAYING games and was like “no, fuck you.”
We need free software advocates to get a chance to step into this ring. If we could push for a requirement that companies release the source code for their game engines, and public domain them - while still allowing them to retain copyrights of content assets, it absolves them of the responsibility of having to put more work into ensuring the game remains playable, while still giving fans what they need to make it continue to be playable. It also means players would still have to buy the game to play it, unless a total conversion existed.
The main complication with that route would be 3rd party middleware. They could just be exempt from release requirements, but that would place a rather large burden on fans for having to make alternatives to that middleware to make a game playable.
I swear even after staring at it for 30s that said “ESL FACESIT GROUP”.
Lol i read it as facsist
all corporations are bad
I see this sentiment often: “All politicians are bad”, “All lawyers are bad”, but it can be very harmful. If one lawyer is crookedly making millions off of illegitimate patent trolling cases, the best person to fight them is another lawyer. If a politician is cozying up to corporations, the best way to fight them is a politician for the people.
On corporations, it sucks to admit, but our lives tie in with many of them no matter how much we try to limit ourselves. I could even see a woodsman living outside civilization being affected by air pollution and land rights claims. People still fall back to needing to buy food, housing, entertainment, even if we agree many evil companies abuse those needs. Supporting responsible corporations, where they exist (and they are not often advertised) can pull power away from the evil ones by showing that the ruthless steps are not necessary, and support workers and hence people; assuming that they’re paying employees well.
Declaring they’re “all evil” can garner some quick attention - but that quickly boils over into defeatist attitudes wherein people stop taking any sociopolitically advantageous actions like targeted boycotts.
Corporations are part of a structure of might which is called the machine. The machine consists of beatlings where each beatling is the authorities of a geographic area. Corporations sets up veins to the beatling and ensures it is beating, in exchange the beatling gives authority to the corporation. Thus there is a symbiosis between beatlings and corporations.
I believe we should move away from the machine towards horizontally run societies for instance through democratic confederalism. By doing this, we would move away from overproduction, natural slaughter, superficial needs, overexploitation, hierarchy, alienation, and towards natural closeness, the meaningful and connectedness.
The purpose of the machine is not to serve us, but to uphold itself and expand, but the only thing standing in its way is… People. So it creates mechanisms to encourage hierarchical thinking, subordination, coldness, distrust, fear, division, narrow mindedness and dehumanization.
When we horizontalize, people will be attracted to these new societal structures and abandon the machine. Thus removing the existential threats to humanity.
Why is my no-buy list for publishers on m feed?











