And coming soon, Chat Control 3: It Was Never About The Children
Oh, it is. Whoever masters Chat Control, gets to decide whom they can blackmail and rendezvous. Especially the underaged.
Police and triple-letter agencies abuse information all the time to stalk their lovers or to get ahead in life. I bet this will be more of the same.
I give it about a month before they’re scanning your teens and banning your texts.
Hey, anyone care to explain what the fuck is wrong with Denmark?
Denmark’s social democrats were doing rough for a while against the conservatives and far right. After the immigration wave of 2015 they changed their stance (like most Nordics and the EU in general) towards an anti-immigration and xenophobe stance.
This delivered them great success in elections due to them appropriating the popular talking points of the far right. Prior to this here in Norway, the social democrats, even as they were doing badly themselves, joked for some time that at least they were doing better than social democrats of Denmark.
TL;DR The Nordic social democrats, with Denmark in the lead, want to be toughest in class on crime and immigration to do well in elections.
In my opinion, this is just an internal contradiction of late stage capitalism, for which their ideology is not capable to compensate.
I wish I could tell you, but for all the cool and sensible things we have her, Denmark comes with… this.
What the fuck is this, Denmark?
It’s sort of funny they have the reputation as one of the least corrupt countries in the world. It’s funny because when you say that something is incapable of being vulnerable in some way, that means at the very least that they are fertile grounds waiting to invite it.
The public does not consider corruption a major problem in Danish society means those that are corrupt can get away with more because of less supervision. The OCDE has serious concerns about the lack of enforcement of bribery paid by Danish companies abroad and the Danske Bank money laundering scandal, which was the largest money laundering scandal ever in Europe and possibly the largest in world (at least until the Trump era), involved - you guessed it - Russian (among other USSR remnants) money laundering. Denmark will do what is good for Denmark, but Denmark is not the EU.
Dunno, my perception of Nordic countries has always been that they have (of course, they’re human) corruption, they have organized crime and they have all kinds of social rot, but they also have no reservations in admitting having those or barriers at discussing and trying to help those, which was the reason for nicer things in their societies. Though inside that perception Denmark has always been the worst.
Still, it’s all dynamics, and of course thinking you’re set causes failures.
Russian money laundering is honestly not as big a problem as the degree of penetration of Russian state secret agents, which both inside Russia and outside is beyond what you’d reasonably expect. If you think a 13 years old girl can’t be an agent, you’re wrong. If you think such agents can’t be a common enough thing, you’re wrong. If you think it’s limited to Russian/ex-USSR nationals and their relatives, you’re wrong.
And that’s the state of affairs during late USSR, these services haven’t become less professional, the world since then was changing fast enough to sharpen them, but also in ways where they always had the resources to survive hardship and learn.
I don’t know what the supreme goals of what one can call Russia’s deep state are, and whether I would consider them something good or bad, but I’m sure western reactions to their actions are all 10-20 years late.
They’ve always been the weird ones
If we have the will to fight this every 5 minutes, we should have the will to make it so we don’t keep having to. Winning the same battle over and over isn’t victory; it’s just giving the enemy more time and opportunity to define the terms of your defeat.
This is getting comically ridiculous and I’m tired, but I suppose that’s the point.
It is the point. It should be a won war not just a won battle. And I, personally, am already preparing for the final loss. Which is inevitable IMHO.
they won’t stop until they are deposed.
OK so how do we do that
Imho, a Linux phone would help. Banning encryption is only possible because of GAFAM and their tie over “our” devices. Like android phones loosing sideloading. Meanwhile snikket.org would be a very illegal app in such dystopian future.
based
A law banning the entire attempt to even crate such laws.
Make it mandatory to institute a 5 year trial phase, during which encryption is broken only for politicians and public servants
I suggest something more physical.
perhaps a certain french invention
Or the Russian one involving not a Microsoft product.
It’s technically a Czech invention, the word is “defenestration”.
Switch to mesh networks could be an idea. It is not that difficult to send messages with bluetooth, problem is adoption: a system like that works only if there are many people using it.
I would be terrified of using a bluetooth mesh network in a situation where private, encrypted communications are illegal. That would be literally walking around transmitting your intent. It’s a great idea in a free country though.
In a dystopia, you want to blend in. Something like deltachat has the right idea there - you have to look like boring email on the network. Maybe even layer on stenography -sending boring emails with cat pictures, but your messages are hidden inside them.
Honestly, I would probably go with sneakernet. A microsd card can be hidden very easily, are difficult to detect electronically, transport virtually unlimited text, and be encrypted in-case the mule gets caught to prevent networks being exposed. The latency is just a necessary evil.
I would be terrified of using a bluetooth mesh network in a situation where private, encrypted communications are illegal. That would be literally walking around transmitting your intent. It’s a great idea in a free country though.
You have a point but that would means that the only other solution is to fall back to personal comunications, every electronic channel is unusable in such situation.
In a dystopia, you want to blend in.
Or you can simply have so much irrelevant data that the few important bits are lost in a sea of randomness if you don’t know where to look.
Something like deltachat has the right idea there - you have to look like boring email on the network. Maybe even layer on stenography -sending boring emails with cat pictures, but your messages are hidden inside them.
The main point of using bluetooth is to not rely on a centralized server that can be compromised and/or shut down.
If you still use email as transportation layer you could just write an app that really has e2ee, plausible deniability or any other feature you want since in the end you are relying on the same centralized infrastructure.Honestly, I would probably go with sneakernet. A microsd card can be hidden very easily, are difficult to detect electronically, transport virtually unlimited text, and be encrypted in-case the mule gets caught to prevent networks being exposed. The latency is just a necessary evil.
The latency is not the problem, it is already known that to move large quantities of data the fastest method is to send an hard drive (or whatever else).
The real problem here is where the mule can go.
And THIS is the problem. How long is PGP / GPG around? I have vivid (and fond) memories of a time in the early 00s when we did encryption parties inviting normal people to help them install GPG and teach them how to encrypt their emails. And people came to these events! We had an event in a community centre where we did over 200 installs on laptops of “average Joes / Janes” in a single day.
But somehow, interest in private communication fizzled out over the last decade or so.
On the other hand, we live in a golden age of private, end-to-end encrypted communications tools. There are literally too many to list here. The problem is our end-points are extremely vulnerable to surveillance now.
Also, the PGP web of trust was a pretty terrible idea for anyone concerned about authoritarian governments. Especially “key parties” that network based on government IDs. They also barely worked in practice anyway. Web-key discovery actually has decent UX, despite being tied to a purchased domain rather than a drivers license. It works fine for people you don’t know, but know by their domain. For people you know, exchanging keys via QR code or verifying keys via some hash out of band has become standard.
The Meeting was today at 10am. Has there been any news about it yet?
I too am very interested
I will move to Linux phone if chat control is enforced. Chat control violates all existing privacy regulations. It’s insane.
I think the strategy used the world-over, is to surveil everyone and build network graphs. You may work extremely hard to secure your device and communications, but the algorithms will build up a dossier on you based on all of the people you associate with who are less capable or motivated. Machine learning is insanely good at filling in missing data in an information rich dataset.
That won’t work in the sense on page 35, Article 2 definition (f) it says that this applies to
(ii)an interpersonal communications service; (iv) an internet access service;as well, meaning your phone provider and ISP. It’s highly the approach to enforce this would couple e-SIM and some app on your phone or computer that things have to be routed through. Or you just don’t get cell/internet service.
This has not yet happened even in the most authoritarian jurisdictions, with the possible exception of North Korea. The Internet is built with open protocols so any restrictions will have to be implemented on the network edge. There is no vendor locking for on-prem routers in multiple countries. As long as all purpose computers are not illegal you can still use strong encryption and anonymizing services on your end devices on your own network. So any mandatory surveillance and tracking will have no power there.
I would be happy to be wrong.
The entire “proposal” is absolutely crazy from start to finish anyway. It’s just that these companies will have to do ______ or be labeled or held liable for aiding in the distribution of CP.
Who knows what they will come up with.
Such a tech restriction would instantly kill hotspot capability of a phone. Not that I think they corrupt traitors in the EU wouldn’t want to try it anyways.
You’re lucky if you don’t depend on apps such as banking apps or Ryanair digital boarding passes
That’s one of the major restrictions for casual use, yes. But if these measures are actually implemented, it might be worth it to have a second phone (or some other device) just for online banking
We’re going to need a sanctioned phone just for banking and another one for everything else. Plus maybe a third one to take to demonstrations etc. Just great :(
Do not take a mobile device on demonstrations if you can’t verify it respects airplane mode. E.g. GOS does, but I’m not aware of any other such.
That is a problem for future Melroy. Hopefully some apps can just be used in a web app, so just going to their website.
I also read about android virtualization within a container. Basically allowing you to still run android apps but we will see…
I use hardware TAN generators but my bank’s app works on LineageOS and GrapheneOS. If my travel service doesn’t accept printed out documents then it is not a travel service I will use.
I would bet my right nut on the real reason for all this is some AI-billionaire who aggressively pushes this with moneyz. Having every fart we make soon be analyzed by AI is the best “natural” training there could be.
As a cherry on top is the total surveillance for the state(s). AI will probably do a decent job (despite what the article says) in scanning for potential “threats” to let actual people check.
But I can’t even comprehend the power that would be needed to actually scan every shit by every person every minute. No data center in the world has this oomph. So it has to be a simple keyword-search (in all possible languages, even leetspeek and co?) To forward to ai. And if ai would just report 0.5% as “suspicious” for manual human control, it would be more supermassive than a black hole. This is just not doable and hence defeats it’s fake reason: protecting the kids.
So that kinda just leaves ai-training and selective easy surveillances without court-orders. Which also won’t protect kids. As every criminal out there will find a loophole.
Of course, just listen to the CEO of Palantir, he already admitted that that’s his goal. By inference, we can extrapolate that this is the goal of all major business leaders of these companies who are developing AI systems. They need more data to compete with China, and if that requires the West to have authoritarian mass surveillance systems, so be it.
While he’s technically not wrong, i hate the world and where it will continue to go to.
All the current powers that be, private and governmental, can heartily agree that allowing the public to have any expectation of privacy or autonomy is highly undesirable.
Can we please stop circlejerking AI into everything? The chat control has been in debate before AI was mainstream
I had multiple possible reasons. Total surveillance is enough already, the recent aggressive pushing hints towards another added goal.
You’re free to offer YOUR insight. I don’t even hate AI. I like it.
My insight: EU is not interested in training AI for your corporations, neither are personal chats with likely zero accuracy/factuality good training material, neither is sms-style grammar going to improve any existing AI, everything about this is illogical and pretty stupid. It has always been about control, not… training AI lol
Illogical? Chat is not just about sms-style dumb texts. It’s images and videos. Trillions of freshly taken photographs. Those are tremendously valuable. And even if it’d be just text, it’s natural training on people. But it’s also video calls, another incredibly valuable thing.
And sure, the EU has no AI to offer, hence I said “some ai billionaire” or anyone or lobby that wants that shit being pushed hard.
But as it is just a thought of a possibility I might totally be wrong. As if peasants like us would ever be allowed to know.
Again, that is not a good training material. There have been numerous studies on the type of training data we feed and the result of it. This type of content tends to poison the data and lead to equalivent of brainrot for AI’s. This is not very useful data for AI, there are far better sources. Again, seems highly illogical the EU would do all this just to train some shitty AI. Training material should also always be accompanied by context data, which is commonly missing from instant messaging. It’s just too big of a mess.
Fair points. But “just” surveillance? Anyone worth being surveiled sure wouldn’t be so dumb to use WhatsApp or other stupid crap. I’m worthless to surveillance and even I would not be possible to surveil.
Just seems weird that it’s pushed so hard. Surveillance was always a must-have, but why now? The moment it gets voted away it’s back on the table.
Counter-argument: all my drug dealers use whatsapp. Real life is not movies, criminals are rarely tech savvy.
For fuck saks. This is so deceitful
Like trying to control une herde de la chats
