For the past 15 years, F-Droid has provided a safe and secure haven for Android users around the world to find and install free and open source apps. When co...
I’m still holding some hope that maybe Samsung’s flavor of the OS won’t have the restriction of requiring Google keys. Specially considering that Samsung has its own “Galaxy Store” with app submissions controlled by them, not Google.
Though it’s possible they might simply extend the signatures accepted to include also the ones signed by them ^^U …still it would give them a competitive edge to remove the restriction so they might be incentivized to do it.
If they want a lot of play store banking apps + other things that opt into play protect to work they’ll need to add the signature verification requirement.
Will the banks in Korea, EU and many other areas where Samsung phones are very common keep that restriction if it meant alienating that many users? I doubt it. That’s why I think the support of a big player on this would be a killing move.
Also I’m not 100% convinced that it’s impossible to have some verification without it depending on this one change.
I’m even willing to use the web apps or webpages for banking, if the browsers can make the handshakes. I’ll forfeit using the bank first party apps, if their websites are full featured.
And the bootloader is now locked down across Samsung’s ecosystem, as of this year. Sucks.
If you move to using an unsecured “chinaphone” as an alternative to the big three handset vendors, then it’s unlikely they are target devices for the myriad of uncertified ROM’s.
I think we are going to need software solutions that can run on major Androdis distributions across the variety of hardware.
I think we’re going to need something like UTM or Docker (virtualization or containerization) for running our unsigned Android apps and services, and I don’t know how feasible it will be.
If you move to using an unsecured “chinaphone” as an alternative to the big three handset vendors, then it’s unlikely they are target devices for the myriad of uncertified ROM’s.
Not following your logic here… With the mainstream devices now locked, “the myriad of uncertified ROMs” will necessarily shift to the remaining unlocked phones, or die out.
I think a viable future is owning two devices, one “certified” to access your banking and work apps, and one running GrapheneOS for your private life.
ROMs rarely work as one-size-fits-all-devices, yeah?
I only know of four smartphone categories of phones that are really available in the markets around the world today, en masse.
The big tentpole phones available from Samsung, Google, Moto, and maybe two other players.
Boutique devices from vendors like Nothing and Fairphone with limited reach to global markets (like, being Euro only, or being only distributed in markets that can buy into they ideology, etc). Nearly all of them prices or is MOST humans’ reach.
Chinaphones. A mix of fly-by-night brands with ghost shifts in factories that make many varieties of phones with other people’s designs, but have extremely limited first party support and probably zero ROM support from the global community … And then the handful of tech markings like Xiami, HTC, Huawei, and anyone else that bends the knee to the CCP. Virtually no NA market penetration in this decade, and tremendous barrier for entry, for most of the Western world. Also, security issues galore.
iPhones.
All that to say, I don’t think a more featured OS existed it’s the way forward, with people all jockeying to make new ROM’s for everyone to NOT be able to run on their phones.
I’m hopeful folks smarter than I will be able to come in about the potential for sandboxes in it phones with their own capacity for running unsigned apps, like a virtualization platform.
I literally named two different phone models, and I think dismissing that people are often bound to what handsets are available to them is … Well, honestly just cruel.
Most of us don’t have the cash to throw down for phones all the time and we need scalability to protect ALL of us, not just those of us cash flush.
My fingers are still crossed folks figure out some containerization or virtualization solution between now and the Goo-lag.
It’s better to work a few hours to buy a good device than waste thousands searching for a fantasy solution. Phones are bought rarely, not ‘all the time’. If you can’t afford basics, fix the money problem first, privacy can wait.
You understand that people who live in the developing world, and have hostile governments that will weaponize Meta/Google’s data and telemetry against them, ALSO deserve privacy and liberty with their devices too, right?
This is why I’m saying that being prescriptive about what hardware we use is not the end game.
It’s going to have to come from the software platform.
I live in a country where the government is now weaponizing the mobile data on our phones to track us, and assault us. They have begun kidnapping citizens without due process and incarcerating people with legal status, without even filling charges.
These state agencies are buying tech that let’s them follow people around by their phones, and the leading mobile platform companies are openly complicit with governments that assault their people.
When you ask if I’m living in the developing world, I travel international a lot but my home country is experiencing rapid decline, and they have banned several categories of phone manufacturers, most famously Huawei consumer products. Ironically, because that company is suspected of doing the same things that Google is doing (granting access to back-end services and data to government entities).
So it’s really not about any one device.
The people affected by this state violence (a ) deserve privacy just like anyone else, and (b ) depend on their mobile devices for every part of their daily life just like everybody else.
How are you going to help them, when you can’t even help yourself?
Nobody can “help themselves” with a technology platform. It taken cooperation with others, to make systemic changes.
Again, I personally will be fine.
I can buy a Chinaphone. Or I can fund a Linux project phone for myself. Or, gods help me, I could buy an iPhone.
But what about the people on the other end of the line? What good is one secure walkie talkie?
I’ve responded, repeatedly, and at length to you.
I’ve treated you like you want to be a responsible member of community. I’ve tried to treat you with benefit of the doubt.
You have generally replied with pithy, two-liner insults and red herrings. I feel comfortable now just disregarding you.
Samsung s22 and s25, checking in. Graphene won’t be viable for the vast, overwhelming majority of Android users today or in the coming seasons.
I hope people figure out some kind of virtualization/docker-containerization solution to the coming Goo-lag.
I’m still holding some hope that maybe Samsung’s flavor of the OS won’t have the restriction of requiring Google keys. Specially considering that Samsung has its own “Galaxy Store” with app submissions controlled by them, not Google.
Though it’s possible they might simply extend the signatures accepted to include also the ones signed by them ^^U …still it would give them a competitive edge to remove the restriction so they might be incentivized to do it.
I’m hopeful that the hackers will win. I will never underestimate the power of motivated, scorned engineers.
Probably by removing some google service or some other gimmick it can be bypassed
I mean, you can hack/root most devices, even right now. I expect that’s not changing.
If they want a lot of play store banking apps + other things that opt into play protect to work they’ll need to add the signature verification requirement.
Will the banks in Korea, EU and many other areas where Samsung phones are very common keep that restriction if it meant alienating that many users? I doubt it. That’s why I think the support of a big player on this would be a killing move.
Also I’m not 100% convinced that it’s impossible to have some verification without it depending on this one change.
That’s a really good point, basically throw their weight around a bit eh?
I’m even willing to use the web apps or webpages for banking, if the browsers can make the handshakes. I’ll forfeit using the bank first party apps, if their websites are full featured.
100%, my bank thankfully doesn’t tick that box, but if it did I wouldn’t think twice about dropping the app. Freedom is more important.
There are many other “uncertified” ROMs.
And the bootloader is now locked down across Samsung’s ecosystem, as of this year. Sucks.
If you move to using an unsecured “chinaphone” as an alternative to the big three handset vendors, then it’s unlikely they are target devices for the myriad of uncertified ROM’s.
I think we are going to need software solutions that can run on major Androdis distributions across the variety of hardware.
I think we’re going to need something like UTM or Docker (virtualization or containerization) for running our unsigned Android apps and services, and I don’t know how feasible it will be.
Not following your logic here… With the mainstream devices now locked, “the myriad of uncertified ROMs” will necessarily shift to the remaining unlocked phones, or die out.
I think a viable future is owning two devices, one “certified” to access your banking and work apps, and one running GrapheneOS for your private life.
ROMs rarely work as one-size-fits-all-devices, yeah?
I only know of four smartphone categories of phones that are really available in the markets around the world today, en masse.
The big tentpole phones available from Samsung, Google, Moto, and maybe two other players.
Boutique devices from vendors like Nothing and Fairphone with limited reach to global markets (like, being Euro only, or being only distributed in markets that can buy into they ideology, etc). Nearly all of them prices or is MOST humans’ reach.
Chinaphones. A mix of fly-by-night brands with ghost shifts in factories that make many varieties of phones with other people’s designs, but have extremely limited first party support and probably zero ROM support from the global community … And then the handful of tech markings like Xiami, HTC, Huawei, and anyone else that bends the knee to the CCP. Virtually no NA market penetration in this decade, and tremendous barrier for entry, for most of the Western world. Also, security issues galore.
iPhones.
All that to say, I don’t think a more featured OS existed it’s the way forward, with people all jockeying to make new ROM’s for everyone to NOT be able to run on their phones.
I’m hopeful folks smarter than I will be able to come in about the potential for sandboxes in it phones with their own capacity for running unsigned apps, like a virtualization platform.
deleted by creator
I literally named two different phone models, and I think dismissing that people are often bound to what handsets are available to them is … Well, honestly just cruel.
Most of us don’t have the cash to throw down for phones all the time and we need scalability to protect ALL of us, not just those of us cash flush.
My fingers are still crossed folks figure out some containerization or virtualization solution between now and the Goo-lag.
It’s better to work a few hours to buy a good device than waste thousands searching for a fantasy solution. Phones are bought rarely, not ‘all the time’. If you can’t afford basics, fix the money problem first, privacy can wait.
“Job” is a precious commodity for many of us.
You understand that people who live in the developing world, and have hostile governments that will weaponize Meta/Google’s data and telemetry against them, ALSO deserve privacy and liberty with their devices too, right?
This is why I’m saying that being prescriptive about what hardware we use is not the end game.
It’s going to have to come from the software platform.
Do you live in the developing world? Is your government banning this phone? How can we help others if we can’t help ourselves?
I live in a country where the government is now weaponizing the mobile data on our phones to track us, and assault us. They have begun kidnapping citizens without due process and incarcerating people with legal status, without even filling charges.
These state agencies are buying tech that let’s them follow people around by their phones, and the leading mobile platform companies are openly complicit with governments that assault their people.
When you ask if I’m living in the developing world, I travel international a lot but my home country is experiencing rapid decline, and they have banned several categories of phone manufacturers, most famously Huawei consumer products. Ironically, because that company is suspected of doing the same things that Google is doing (granting access to back-end services and data to government entities).
So it’s really not about any one device.
The people affected by this state violence (a ) deserve privacy just like anyone else, and (b ) depend on their mobile devices for every part of their daily life just like everybody else.
Nobody can “help themselves” with a technology platform. It taken cooperation with others, to make systemic changes.
Again, I personally will be fine. I can buy a Chinaphone. Or I can fund a Linux project phone for myself. Or, gods help me, I could buy an iPhone.
But what about the people on the other end of the line? What good is one secure walkie talkie?
s22 and an s25, where’s the cooperation and systemic change there?
I’ve responded, repeatedly, and at length to you. I’ve treated you like you want to be a responsible member of community. I’ve tried to treat you with benefit of the doubt.
You have generally replied with pithy, two-liner insults and red herrings. I feel comfortable now just disregarding you.
I hope someday you find your way to kindness.