- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.world
KEY POINTS
New European car registrations of Tesla vehicles totaled 8,837 in July, down 40% year-on-year, according to the European Automobile Manufacturers Association, or ACEA.
BYD recorded 13,503 new registrations in July, up 225% annually.
Elon Musk’s automaker faces a number of challenges in Europe, including intense ongoing competition and reputational damage to the brand.
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And Xiaomi / BYD are not really that much aggressive atm. Xiaomi built factories in Hungary which just wait to start operations. Tesla is cooked in that regard.
You hate to see it
Good. May they fall another 40% in 2026. Fuck that company.
Who are the losers that still buy a Tesla in Europe?
Hopefully the people who will buy my car whenever a better car than Tesla appears. No luck so far on the latter.
What specifically is Tesla doing better than the other choices?
lmao fucking what? There are so many better cars than Tesla
There are a lot of better cars than Tesla. I’m personally a big fan of the Vauxhall Mokka-e, but I’d also much rather buy a Hyundai Kona electric than any Tesla.
Okay there’s nothing wrong with the Kona Electric, but neither of these cars is “better” than Tesla.
They are cheaper though. So that’s a perfectly good reason to get them instead of Tesla. You want better than Tesla, you have to look at Germany, Sweden or… Maybe the UK? Jaguar made some pretty OK EVs, which they unfortunately cancelled, but I do believe they’re planning to revise their entire strategy to become EV-only now?
Ah actually, the Hyundai Ioniq lineup deserves a look too, if you’re looking for something “better than Tesla” (well, comparable, anyway), without paying Mercedes or Volvo prices. The Ioniq 5 I test drove was quite fine, for a Korean car. Interior was nicer than Tesla’s IMO, there was an OK amount of power for the lowest spec model. Battery is big enough to facilitate roadtrips, or to commute several days, probably over a week, without charging (so if you forget to plug it in at home you don’t have to run to a quick charger that costs more + is worse for the battery). I will however say that the 2020 Hyundai Ioniq 5 was not nearly as comfortable as the 2003 Mercedes E-Class I drove home after the test drive. That’s what sucks about EVs for now, you can’t yet get super cheap depreciated executive/luxury ones for low enough prices that they’re essentially disposable and you’re not too worried if an expensive part breaks. And if you DO get an Audi E-tron for super cheap, you’re liable for a battery replacement that costs way more than the residual value of the car itself :(
Hyundai I’ve tested, although not Kona but Ioniq. It was ok, but not better than Tesla.
I tried to drive a model 3 and it was infuriating to have everything on touch including turn indicators, windshield wipers and especially the gear selector.
Then a huge screen that can’t be used with your phone so you’re still forced to use a phone holder like a decade ago.
For me a car without carplay/android auto loses $5000 in value, and “touchscreen everything” removes another $5000 in value. I could only accept those compromises in a $20k car if new, $10k if used
Wait what?? I knew they overused terrible touch screen controls… But you can’t even connect your phone properly?
A lot of engineers are obsessed with touchscreen everything because sci-fi from the 70s to 90s was obsessed with that shit, so they became obsessed with it.
My understanding is that they also aim that way to reduce moving parts - since knobs, buttons, and switches are more likely to fail after 5000 uses. That, and they can update touchscreens to do whatever they want differently, like serve up ads.
5000 uses? Thats how often I click the left mouse button per day ar least. Most buttons are rated for millions of clicks.
My oldest car ever was from 1992. I bought it in 2015 and sold it in I think 2018 or 2019 or something. I do not remember there being a single failed button. There were a few knobs that had been literally torn off by someone. But not failed buttons.
It’s a cost thing. It’s cheaper to get a shitty commodity touch screen from Alibaba and slap it in a cheap bezel, hook it up to a potato, and then just outsource the design and functionality to the code team in India. It’s more expensive to actually do the industrial design to fit physical buttons and dials and source all the components required for the same. Engineers are obsessed with screens because their bosses are obsessed with cost.
It’s the consumers, not the engineers, who go all starry-eyed and get so easily wowed over a crappy $12 touch panel with shit for pixel density and fuck-all for viewing angles, because they’re the ones who have been bamboozled into believing this is all “futuristic.” Most people aren’t tech savvy enough to realize they’re being sold cheap bullshit at a premium.
What does “properly” mean in this context? In my experience, every android auto -supporting car is way worse than Tesla.
Well the way he framed it. As in you still need your phone in an holder. I figured you can’t properly control your music from Tesla. Can’t easily make calls, Bad support for other apps. I’ve never really experienced a Tesla properly, and I would way too ashamed to do so nowadays. So I don’t really know the experience very well.
I mean, infotainment is the one thing where they’re not TOO bad. I think you can just get native apps for Spotify and Apple Music. No Waze though.
You don’t need your phone anywhere, it’s just not Android auto. You can make phone calls through your phone via voice, it can play music from your phone, but there’s limited controls there to control the phone, or you can just use any of their built in music apps with full voice and touch screen controls. I think you can even do voice to text messages or have text messages read to you, but I’m not 100% sure on that one. There’s something about text messages though. You can share a map location from your phone directly to the car.
The phone connects over Bluetooth. The car itself runs apps for some services, so you log in on the car for those apps to run them natively. If you personally don’t use any of the services/apps it supports though, you’re stuck with Bluetooth only. Full forward/back/skip/ etc supported but it’s not android auto. I think all the models come with the built in phone charging cradle spot under the touch screen.
and people were still trying to buy this car, most cars has the bluetooth feature where it connects to the computer, tesla dint have that?
It connects to your phone in the sense that you can:
- Make phone calls
- Receive and send texts (no Whatsapp/signal/telegram or any other kind of app based messaging)
- Listen to audio, if you manually start the playback on the phone
- Use your phone hotspot to stream from the built-in Spotify or other streaming services, if you don’t want to pay a $120/year subscription
But it can’t do basic mirroring like most cars on the market can do.
In this way, if you want to have traffic info or speed camera alerts, you’re forced to pay for Tesla premium subscription, as there’s no other way to show a third party navigation app on the big screen (except ugly hacks like using the web browser for navigation, which is a safety hazard)
At $10 or less a month, (It’s $99 for a year, $9.99 for a month) it’s cheaper than using a gig of data on many non-unlimited plans. It’s at least a better deal than the price-equivalent GM OnStar plan for example.
For Tesla, I believe the only feature locked behind the subscription (won’t work unless subscribed, even with a separate hotspot) other than live traffic is the Tesla-app based bandwidth-intensive stuff like viewing the sentry cameras remotely, but I don’t have a definitive list.
I think the nav will take traffic into account when navigating, even if you don’t subscribe, but it won’t show you traffic. I’m not sure on that though, it may have been true a while ago and changed.
In my country I get 150 gb of 5G data for 5.99 a month, so the Tesla premium connectivity subscription is not worth at all
I already pay for almost unlimited data, and I have a 8 core with 16gb of RAM in my pocket, with all my information on it: the best option is to just mirror my device and let me use my preferred navigation system or use alternative music apps like Tempo.
It’s inefficient to have a Ryzen class computer in the car just because otherwise the mothership can’t monetize the infotainment
Of course it does. You should take everything said here about Tesla with a lot of salt. People hate them enough to lie about it.
Liquidate Musk
sopanify him, all that fat can make soap, probably use a degreaser on him.
Gee do you need to be a wizard to figure out aligning yourself with idiot right wingers wasn’t a good business decision when your entire business appeal is about being a good person and saving the planet
Saving the planet by selling cars that cost >1.5 median yearly income, pretax was always a joke.
its expensive for an such average ev car.
From an american billionaire to a chinese billionaire. Glory to Europe, never doing anything well themselves.
Forgot about VW, BMW, Audi, Skoda, Mercedes, Renault, Peugeot, Opel(vauxhall for some), Volvo and a ton more.
Volvo is not European anymore. It’s owned by a Chinese Holding Group.
I’ve test driven some of those you listed and no, they’re not better.
Fuck off mate.
My Mercedes is leaps and bounds better than a Tesla in quality control, attention to detail, comfort, and support / aftercare.
Starting to think you’re Elon at this point.
I’ve owned several and Tesla is like driving a heap of shit compared to proper cars. QC is laughably shit.
I don’t know about Europe-wide, but in Germany usually 8 of the top 10 brands (including the top 4) are European. Ford and Hyundai/Kia are the other 2.
EDIT: sales data specifically about EVs
I would rather have a European EV than a Chinese EV. But in the end of the day I will have to settle for Japanese.
So Nissan? That’s kind of European, since their alliance with Renault.
Toyota: am l a joke to you
Toyotas are great cars, but they have been dragging their heels with their EV models.
Yeah what’s up with that? They could’ve eaten the entire market twice over with their momentum.
I drove a Toyota corolla hybrid. It was fantastic. I am a fan of Toyota Corollas in general.
Good point, that data is about EVs, and Toyota doesn’t make any that sell well.
Good.
I don’t care who wins as long as the US loses.
I do care. I wish Europe would win. At least the US might have sane people in power half of the time. China is a full on dictatorship. They are more rational than dorito mussolini, but not really who I want to depend on.
Europe will not win because European elites are unimaginative idiots who can not see a future that does not involve sucking up to Americans.
von der Leyen basically caved to Trump in a trade deal despite having a very good hand.
Or maybe she agreed to impossibles just to placate the idiot, because TACO. It’s not over, we’ll see how it ends.
As an American, I think the only path forward for a stable world is a stable Europe, if only because the EU is the biggest non malfunctional, non antagonistic multi country body right now.
Lovely, let’s keep making certain the stupid prizes he wins are worth it. He likes Tesla so much, we could collectively do the funniest thing by making sure his fortunes end.
I haven’t bought anything from a USA company since Trump being his second term. I canceled Amazon prime. I sought out UK and EU suppliers for all my products and services. Installed Linux (German based distro, sorry fedora) closed my social media apart from lemmy and migrated my emails to an EU service. Oh and bought a Chinese made electric Dacia. You can do it, it wasn’t even hard.
I won’t buy usa things because I hate fascism
Buys Chinese electric
I mean
have you met the Chinese president for life? Feels like a really weird line you’ve drawn between acceptable and not acceptable.
Maybe, but it does feel as someone in the UK that Trump seems more like a new, clear and present danger to our way of life than the Chinese.
To the uninformed sure.
It is an incredible self-own for the USA that won’t really be felt for a few years at least. To abandon research and future markets tech like electric vehicles and green energy, and to abandon them at the exact time China goes all in on it? Are they trying to put themselves in a position of irrelevance? Because that’s exactly what I’d do if that’s what I wanted.
Hey, gotta focus on fascism first
Yes. Trump is Putin’s puppet and does anything he says.
I guess they really are. Much of the decisions are based on what TikTok tells people to think. Facebook allows for Russian influence, TikTok is steered from Beijing.
The idea of “USA shouldn’t make electric cars” dies come from China, and exists precisely in order to put USA into disadvantage.
Are you based in the US? I’m curious how much the import taxes were on the EV
I’m in the UK
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I shall. If the USA continues to threaten Canadian sovereignty, I will refuse to trade with them.
When Trump (may his anus be infested with cancerous hemorrhoids) dies, I will pop open a patriotic bottle of Crown Royal and listen to the wails of his cult with delight.
if you had any real patriotism, you would not be this complaisant as your country is flushed down the toilet
Patriotism…
Username is Ernstrommel.
Are you wearing your kampfbinde right now?
The word you are looking for is nationalism. Völkisch is the flavor you are probably after.
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What a response. I’m impressed. Are you self aware at all? Is this just ragebait? Go back to 4chan anon.
Edit: He made it 2 days… Poor guy. I hope he wakes up to reality before it’s too late.
damn, you really misunderstand what patriotism is don’t you
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I’m sure it’s got nothing to do with Elon Musk unironically promoting nazis.
60% of their business used to be racists. Now its 100%
That’s what he gets for being a lying idiot nazi prick.
Tesla also makes inferior cars. Tesla also has a big unneeded tv in the car. Tesla car is a kind of an early access with their bugfix patching. Teslas’ main product is also your data.
Tesla also has a big unneeded tv in the car.
Ehh, have you ever seen a BYD? All their models are essentially “Tesla but more obnoxious”.
I did not. Not the cockpit. I’m sure it’s bad as well. For me any touch control in the car is bad news.
And with a virtual assistant.
Tesla cars were a very good prospect until pretty much this year. Most people are fine with everything being on a big dumb screen instead of having proper buttons (even though it’s a usability and safety nightmare) and once you get past that, they’re comfortable and practical - and well-priced compared to the non-Chinese competition.
But now, Elon outed himself as an actual Nazi, and took away proper indicators and gear selectors.
Comfortable is subjective. Model Y suspension was certainly crashy when I rented one for half an hour for the lulz
Don’t most them don’t have a mechanical way to open the door? Like if the battery dies or there is a software glitch you legit can’t open the fucking door. Ppl have literally died cause their shit ass doors only unlock electrically.
The normal way to open the door is with a button that cracks the window slightly, because the door does not contain an upper window frame for aesthetic reasons. However, there is a mechanical release.
What you will be thinking of is that on some models (I can’t remember which exactly) the mechanical release for the rear doors is not in an obvious place, so if you need to get out in a hurry, u gon die.
This is obviously moronic design and risks lives for no practical benefit, but most people don’t base their purchasing decisions based on what might go wrong in a tiny number of crashes. You could compare it to a decision to buy a luxury car rather than a normal one: that’s tens of thousands of currency units that you could set aside to retire a year early, or in case you or some close to you hits bad luck. The practical choice is to buy the normal car (or the non-Tesla), but the likelihood that it will be important is very small, so it’s not really crazy to make the non-practical choice.
There’s plenty of cars without rear doors at all, never seen them criticized the way people criticize the “non-obvious mechanical release” of teslas. It’s basically grasping at straws to justify the hate of musk, as if he he didn’t do enough shit himself already to fully justify all blowback.
In those cars the front seats fold down super easy (usually pull one lever or press one button) so you can just get to the front doors which usually have fairly obvious opening mechanics.
Yeah it’s a common thing - if people don’t like something, they will be very critical of everything related to it. Many people are not capable or even really interested in being fair; if you mention this you will be accused of “defending” them.
now everyones reporting issues with the regular cars to, that they dint do it for years?
What do you mean?
Tesla also has a big unneeded tv in the car
I used to think the same, before I bought a (non-Tesla) EV myself. It’s very convenient to have some entertainment other than your phone during charging stops.
Also, the big screen is very well designed in a Tesla. It’s difficult to move to inferior UX models like pretty much every other car is after experiencing it. I’ve practically never used it for “entertainment”.
You can have a big screen in your car and physical buttons to control things, also anyone can carry a tablet in their car for entertainment as well
It would be nice if there were some thought into charging stops. Like I want a halfway decent sandwich and a coffee while I’m here. Usually, all I get is the far end of a Walmart parking lot. If there’s anything in walking distance at all, it’s probably across a stroad with no pedestrian signals.
Oddly enough, EVs are better in walkable cities.
Everything is better in walkable cities
if i owned a restaurant, i would KILL for a bunch of chargers. think about it! your stuck there for like at least a half an hour. why not just grab a bite? your a captive audience at that point. or theaters? gas stations seem to be the WORST place for them, because their need for fast turn around.
what i would have done with gas stations would be to have a battery swap system, sorta like a propane tank refill. now the cars would have to be designed where some batteries would have to be slotable by the user, but a benefit would be instant charge using a battery subscription deal. it would also effectively remove the max mileage concern from EV entirely, and the gas stations would not need much retro fitting at all.
Nio does battery swap stations. Never tried them myself, but they don’t seem to be very successful, at least not yet. My main problem is that you don’t own the battery and have to permanently rent it (which makes sense, since you swap it constantly). The costs long term don’t make it very attractive, especially since it solves a problem most people face like once a year, when going on vacation.
well, someone else mentioned problems with it on an engineering level that would be an issue.
but my main thought was that the car would have to be designed in a way where the car would still have its normal batteries, but could slot in additional batteries, and you would handle it just like swapping out propane tanks at a gas station
Several groups have tried battery swapping. It just doesn’t work very well.
oh? what was the problem?
Standardization, designing the whole car around it, and the complex mechanisms to automatically change the system. Batteries are heavy and need chonky, high current connections. Those connections are easier if they’re wired in and left alone for the life of the car. Also, can’t take advantage of making the battery more integrated into the frame to reduce weight.
It’s not a new idea. Whole bunch of companies tried it and failed to go anywhere. Formula E ruled it out for safety reasons; in earlier seasons, drivers swapped cars instead of packs.
Charge stations should be on the Italian Autogrill model. Only in Italy can you get the best food in the country at a gas stop.
Hell yes. Unfortunately the Tesla chargers here are not at the Autogrills and you have to get off the motorway and usually into some random hotel parking lot for those. But there will be other fast chargers right at the Autogrills so I end up using those 🤷
The problem is actuarial data that shows Teslas have more frontal collisions which is because of the screen which is on track to being banned in EU. The second problem is the brittle cast aluminum frame shit out of Giga presses that makes most collisions a right off. Hence very high insurance costs on the Teslur.
musk, eliminated QC, because it was preventing him from selling them quickly, and its too expensive to add in quality materials.
it is one of the reasons he doesnt use LIDAR in the newer models? waymo is already way ahead of tesla robotaxis, eventhough its still limited right now, musk was too late to the game. although he couldve used this to slow down the pump and dump scheme thats going on.
Not even that …
BYDs are better and cheaper than pretty much any other EV. That’s why Americans can’t buy them.
And why Americans can’t afford used cars.
https://www.financefling.com/how-much-would-a-byd-car-cost-in-the-usa-in-2025/
Even after current tariffs, it’s cheaper than everything else.
The vast amount of Americans are suffering so a handful of wealthy ones can get even wealthier.
Canada here. Most of the middle-class can’t afford new cars either. Trucks are big like RV’s now and it’s almost like buying a house.
I’ve read a number of European reviews of the byd dolphin and most I’ve seen have compared it unfavorably to European EVs
BYD’s biggest advantage is the government subsidies it gets from China. In the EU, they get tariffed to protect local automotive companies from unfair competition (I.e nation-state supported automotive companies that can literally sell their cars at a loss). Thus, BYD loses its appeal.
The problem with auto reviews is that they are all advertising. They never mention reliability as a concern. Australia killed off local GM and Ford production and they brought in Chinese EVs two years ago. Consensus already is that they don’t last.
Looks like the average Euro EV is ~44k and the dolphin comes in under 30k, under 25k in UK…
It definitely doesn’t have all the bells and whistles, but it’s a shit ton cheaper.
The people writing reviews for brand new cars have a target demographic: people that routinely buy new cars.
The majority of people won’t have the same priorities, especially these days.
EU has a dozen EVs under 25,000. Average car costs are misleading, the mean is a more important number.
They usually compare it to cars of a similar size, instead of similar price. and yeah, when you’re buying a car of the same size that’s 5k cheaper, you’re getting less car.
Better how? Because Australians disagree.
