- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@lemmy.ml
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.ml/post/29626776
[“fierce opposition”? Don’t bet on it.]
By TIA GOLDENBERG and SAM MEDNICK
Updated 5:25 AM EDT, May 5, 2025TEL AVIV, Israel (AP) — Israel approved plans on Monday to capture the entire Gaza Strip and remain in the territory for an unspecified amount of time, two Israeli officials said, in a move that if implemented would vastly expand Israel’s operations in the Palestinian territory and likely bring fierce international opposition.
Israeli Cabinet ministers approved the plan in an early morning vote, hours after the Israeli military chief said the army was calling up tens of thousands of reserve soldiers.
So you’re saying the democrats are receiving proper blame for supporting the genocidal state, but it’s the people who didn’t vote for either of the pro-genocide candidates that are to blame?
Why do so many people constantly just misframe this argument as “it’s the people who didn’t vote’s fault!” And not the fault of the actual people in power for not standing up to a genocide, for once again moving right to capture a “centrist swing” voter, for parading out the fucking neocons as proof of their ability to fucking govern, and for openly arming the genocide?
You want to lay blame at voters’ feet, but not the people who couldn’t do enough to earn the votes of people…asking not to be involved in genocide. Our votes aren’t theirs to fucking have no matter what they do. What they have done and will do in power matters. If it doesn’t, what the fuck is the point of voting? Why not just trade places back and forth for increasingly bold warmongers and autocrats?
Don’t blame the voter for not sacrificing their morals and for not holding their nose and saying maybe they wont keep contributing to genocide. Blame the people fucking supporting genocide.
This is so myopic.
Don’t blame the voters for not choosing the obviously better and more probable choice that would lead to protections for Palestinians than the guaranteed binary alternative outcome? Okay.
Ignore the fact that much of the electorate is completely fucking ignorant and apathetic and duped by literally billions of dollars of misinformation flooding their media, both domestically but also including Israeli and Russian operations spreading disinformation? (something these Uncommitted voters became susceptible too in the boTh SiDes rhetoric, ind you)
I’m Pro-Palestinian. I’m Pro-Civilian. But if these couch-sitters really gave a fuck beyond empty moral grandstanding, then they should’ve focused on helping to inform their fellow voters why it’s important to help Gaza. After all, you want candidates to respect the will of the voters but ignore the ultimate reality that the electorate was clearly split on the issue just the same and made no attempt to influence the electorate? Put another way: instead of protesting the DNC convention, maybe you guys should’ve started protesting at church parking lots around the country and showing the horrors of Palestine, undercutting the media narrative? That would’ve been much more fruitful.
Because you’re lying to yourself if you think Harris would somehow be worse or equally unreachable like Trump.
Leaving aside the fact that you completely further enabled (a) a loss of LGBTQ+ rights in America, (b) Women’s rights by abortion access, (c) Climate change, and finally (d) became complicit in enabling Russia’s attempted genocide in Ukraine all the same. So please, step off the soapbox.
I blame the DNC for constantly shooting themselves in both feet, especially when it comes to their insistence on running sham primaries. I blame the neoliberals in both parties for creating the propaganda and legal bribery industries that shifted the Overton window so far right in this country. I blame voters like you, for not being able to see the forest for the trees when the options we’re given are more neoliberalism, or blatant fascism. You chose now, of all times, to put your foot down with the DNC, because that’s what the bandwagon was doing. Now you think your rage at the system justifies a decision, that you made, that helped bring us outright fascism. Meanwhile, minorities like me get to sit here wondering why so many leftists were willing to sacrifice us on the alter of idealogical purity. If you were actually concerned about Palestinians, you would’ve voted for the option that had potential to ease their suffering. In other words, there would’ve been far more political pressure on Harris to do something about the genocide. Instead, we got Trump talking about “wiping it clean” for new development. If you want to continue to justify implicitly voting for Trump, by abstaining, then please explain how Trump is better for Palestine than Harris. That was your primary motivation for not voting after all, right?
That’s easy, it goes like this:
If you and people like you had all voted for the Democratic candidate instead of witholding your vote because she wasn’t anti-Israel enough, Trump would have lost.
Then it continues:
If Trump had lost, this wouldn’t be happening.
Therefore:
It’s most directly Trump and his Nazi party’s fault, but voters who didn’t vote for Harris 100% share the blame for helping to elect Trump.
Easy motherfucking peasy.
Oh, you don’t like genocide? Then why’d you help enable it? And if you can pull your head out of Gaza’s asshole for a minute, why’d you enable the equivalent in the US with millions of deportations?
I suppose you think it’s Democratic voters’ fault. What, should have have all boycotted the vote so Trump could win harder? Do you think that’d have helped? If Harris came out as super anti-Israel, so that such voters would deign to vote for her, that she’d still have carried enough swing states to win? Because she wouldn’t have, that’s just reality.
Congrats to everyone who pulled this off; now Gaza, the USA, AND Ukraine are fucked. Well done! Xi and Vlad applaud you too!
But it’s just such a twisted way of thinking about it. You’re telling people to sacrifice their firmly held beliefs, and you’re mad at people who didn’t. But you’re not expending any of that energy trying to change the problematic politicians.
I understand trump is worse. But that does not guarantee his opponent any votes simply because they aren’t him. They have actively turned further and further away from us. At what point does that ever affect your vote? They were taking part in an active genocide. And openly claiming they were not going to change that.
…what do they have to do to lose your vote? Could they be actively rounding up people in work camps?
We all understand the difference between trump and the dems.
But my entire point is what is your vote worth? Apparently it’s worth not very much and can stomach at least genocide without being turned away. Not mine.
And if you’re going to keep blaming people, and not the politicians, then we are going to keep running into this problem. Because the trend has not been kind to us, to you or me. This keeps happening. The politicians have shown us their tactics will be continually moving to the right. It’s been that way my whole life. Genocide was the dealbreaker for me. Not for you. But this is the world we are living in now. And blaming us isn’t changing shit. Maybe you should start aiming your anger at the people making those choices.
It’s a simple moral calculus, don’t you see? You must always vote for Hitler and help him kill 5,000,000 people, if the alternative is somebody who’s going to kill 5,000,001 people.
I blame them for making my minority friends fear for the lives they’ve built in the us.
I blame them for making my trans sister fear for her life.
I blame them for allowing republicans to completely destroy social services and vital parts of the US government.
There was so much more at stake than continued genocide in a country half way around the world.
They deserve at least some of the blame, because they allowed all this to happen.
Ask yourself why you dont blame the party that decided to base their platform on supporting genocide. The dems chose the interests of a foreign nation committing genocide before the minority and trans community and the interest of their constituents in general.
I’m so sorry for what you and your loved ones have to live through
can someone explain why my sincere concern for someone’s suffering is getting down voted
Thank you.
I only wish the people who abstained had enough brain power to think more than a half step ahead.
Fuck all of them. Every single one is an absolute shit stain, no better than a magat.
“They’re both immoral, voting doesn’t make a difference” is how autocracies like Russia come to be.
Vote for the least bad side. It’s that simple. Protest during the primaries, protest after the election, but don’t freaking protest vote by effectively voting for something an order of magnitude worse on your very issues.
Doesn’t matter if Biden/Harris came out and personally handed Netanyahu bombs after hugging him every day… If this is your single issue vote, you vote for the party that doesn’t literally want to flatten Gaza, no matter how bad they are.
No, Russia became an autocracy by never being a free state after the fall of the Soviet Union.
The chaos of just adding a president to the existing Soviet order and then the overpowered oligarchs vying for power and buying the “privatized” industries through nepotism and backroom deals is how it happened. Not to mention Yeltsin literally forcing his constitution into law by having tanks fire on the parliament and arresting its members, resulting in an incredibly powerful president who appointed basically the entire government.
The same few oligarchs and corrupt politicians retaining power, especially when the president holds outsized power in the system led the country to an autocracy. It wasnt from people thinking “both are immoral, voting doesn’t make a difference.”
The Russian people know voting doesn’t make a difference because the government did nothing to show they’re trustworthy. 88% of the vote, the competitors being arrested or suicided?
Ignoring immoral politicians and giving them power despite their shortcomings is far more likely to lead to autocracy. It’s not on the voter to cast their vote. It’s on the politicians to earn the votes. Thinking it’s the other way around is incredibly twisted. And honestly really sad that that’s the way people think.
Well I’m not sorry, as I am not seeing anything presented that changes the calculus.
Better politicians would be nice, but we didn’t get them in the primaries, so when we get to the general election we vote for who we freaking got, and “protesting” with your vote is not going to change that, as thats not what this vote is for. I guess you’re not obligated to, but your logic is flawed if you think that’s a good form of protest.
Who cares if they are immoral? Get over it. Vote for the less worse candidate, if you want to keep voting at all. On aggregate, it’s that simple.
In other words, a no vote is equal support of both candidates.
That’s it.
It means nothing else.
And I referenced Russia because the population seems to have a general cynicism knowing they can’t change anything. That’s what keeps the system the way it is.
absolutely right, only people pushing an agenda think nonvptong is a reasonable response
there’s obvious vote manipulating going on here they always do it with 0 to -1 and it will always happen when the majority of interest in the post has died, seen the exact voting trends to many times